New Bowling Green RACING CLASS 2007
- Thread starter GNocide
- Start date
There probaly isn't enough TR owners that remembers how a stock air box installs..that is pervided they find one
JayC said:
Ok, to be serious, I'm guessing these motors came stock with TTY bolts? I'm also guessing we're talking about Torque to Yeild bolts? If so, TTY bolts are none reuseable. You simple chunk them in the trash when you pull them out of the head. So I'm with Jay on this one as well. I would be very surprised to hear of anyone reusing TTY bolts. It wouldn't surprise me if you had to buy a TTY bolt from some aftermarket company like Fram. I had to do this once because Ford had stopped making bolts for a car. Anyhow, I think pulling a valve cover to inspect for stuff like studs or stock TTY bolts is over kill.
There probaly isn't enough TR owners that remembers how a stock air box installs..that is pervided they find one
Ok, to be serious, I'm guessing these motors came stock with TTY bolts? I'm also guessing we're talking about Torque to Yeild bolts? If so, TTY bolts are none reuseable. You simple chunk them in the trash when you pull them out of the head. So I'm with Jay on this one as well. I would be very surprised to hear of anyone reusing TTY bolts. It wouldn't surprise me if you had to buy a TTY bolt from some aftermarket company like Fram. I had to do this once because Ford had stopped making bolts for a car. Anyhow, I think pulling a valve cover to inspect for stuff like studs or stock TTY bolts is over kill.
reread post # 27 in this thread on page 3 i think,
about head bolts/reasons or to clear up any guessing
You can also still get a correct looking TTY bolt. I don't remember the supplier right off the top of my head. You don't have to pull valve covers to see the bottom head bolts. They are easily seen IE the bottom row of bolts. There is no mention of actual tear down in the rules.
How much more relaxed can you get. You have to read between the lines just like you have to in any racing class. It's all in interpretation. Rules are bent in every class.
How many people have a something laying around that could run with the twin turbo cars. While I agree the rules are a little late for this year, I think someone somewhere would be interested in building a car for this class and maybe running next year. I could be wrong but anyone interested in any class has to start somewhere and build their car in order to be legal for that class.
Thats cool, I would think a TTY bolt would have a more adavantage over a standard type bolt anyways.
Jugular said:
Checking for bolt castings isn't relaxed in my opinion.
Jugular said:
Yes sir, but it sounds like a rescipe for desaster. Just let a guy with ARP head bolts win the event...
so true- any class for that matter
bone stock height specs
“Bone stock” TR class qualifying ET 13.9
The bone stock tr class is intended to provide a race class for cars that are stock appearing. Unlike the TSS class where some visible mods are allowed for performance reasons virtually all of those will not be allowed in this class. This means if we can SEE it and its not how the car was delivered its not allowed. Or put another way if you have to ask if its ok------ its not!
Suspension :
NO frame mods or reinforcements, stock wheel base, stock unmodified control arms front and rear in original locations, since all the cars didn’t come with the same bushing compliment you can have them in all locations as long as they are GM bushings. No braces that didn’t come on the car. 8.5 inch 10 bolt GM rear with stock stamped cover. Stock size sway bars front and rear required with black bushings. Stock appearing brakes, drums back, disc front. Any type stock appearing shocks in stock location----any color ok. No air bags Car must sit at +/- one inch of stock ride height (this would be 8 inches from road surface to jacking holes in frame)
Engine compartment
109 block with no EXTERNAL mods, all original equipment intact and functioning—no deletions or additions that aren’t supported by build tag on inside trunk lid, Stock air box and snorkel any filter element, original size battery in stock location with original type side terminals, original waterpump manifold etc original appearing starter and 120A alternator, original GM headers with heat shields intact---may be welded for repair purposes, original downpipe with original type wastegate and solenoid----wastegate may be modified to make it adjustable, stock appearing turbo with stock inlet bell with vent intact---turbo must fit under unmodified shield mounted in stock location with stock bracket, stock appearing MAF (AC moulded with down turned plug) and OEM flex hose, stock intercooler with stock inlets/outlets, any size injectors in 6 stock locations, NO POWER ADDERS UNLESS THEY ARE TOTALLY INVISIBLE TO TEC JUDGES---IF WE SPOT IT---- ITS OUT!!! 8445 heads installed with GM TTY bolts with NO external mods (this includes logos), stock unmodified valve covers with oem filler cap, stock radiator and core, additional underhood wiring with no additions/deletions that aren’t supported by option tag-----only exceptions 1-alarm, 2- single relay and wiring for fuel pump upgrade, AC may be converted to R-134 and must be operational, powermaster with stock reservoir
Tranny
2004R with no external mods except for 2nd servo, stock pan and driveshaft---loop ok, any convertor or transbrake as long as it is not visible under or inside the car,
Tires/wheels
Any matched set of 15” or 16” steel or aluminum wheels allowed-------tires must be 275 or less DOT radials-----NO SLICKS
Interior
Full stock interior matching build sheet, stock shifter, only addition to gauges is boost and it must be pillar or console mounted, radio may be upgraded but must fit in stock location with no visible parts elsewhere
Exterior
No fiberglass body parts except for bumper fillers, stock operating glass windows and windshield, full size OEM aluminum or steel bumper supports, use of aluminum supports do not have to match build sheet _______in trunk, bumper shocks must be original/unmodified, no mods to sheet metal, fenders etc
Fuel system
Factory stock appearing tank, no visible additions to tank or pumps except for relay and wire upgrade, stock rail and lines
Exhaust
Downpipe must attach to stock elbow in stock fashion, downpipe must route in stock location, no flexpipe, stock appearing cat must be in stock location—may be hollowed but must be able to pass a 50 state VISUAL inspection, any single or dual exhaust allowed but must function (muffle) and exit in stock location, must be 2.5 inch or less pipes past “Y” connection at cat
“Bone stock” TR class qualifying ET 13.9
The bone stock tr class is intended to provide a race class for cars that are stock appearing. Unlike the TSS class where some visible mods are allowed for performance reasons virtually all of those will not be allowed in this class. This means if we can SEE it and its not how the car was delivered its not allowed. Or put another way if you have to ask if its ok------ its not!
Suspension :
NO frame mods or reinforcements, stock wheel base, stock unmodified control arms front and rear in original locations, since all the cars didn’t come with the same bushing compliment you can have them in all locations as long as they are GM bushings. No braces that didn’t come on the car. 8.5 inch 10 bolt GM rear with stock stamped cover. Stock size sway bars front and rear required with black bushings. Stock appearing brakes, drums back, disc front. Any type stock appearing shocks in stock location----any color ok. No air bags Car must sit at +/- one inch of stock ride height (this would be 8 inches from road surface to jacking holes in frame)
Engine compartment
109 block with no EXTERNAL mods, all original equipment intact and functioning—no deletions or additions that aren’t supported by build tag on inside trunk lid, Stock air box and snorkel any filter element, original size battery in stock location with original type side terminals, original waterpump manifold etc original appearing starter and 120A alternator, original GM headers with heat shields intact---may be welded for repair purposes, original downpipe with original type wastegate and solenoid----wastegate may be modified to make it adjustable, stock appearing turbo with stock inlet bell with vent intact---turbo must fit under unmodified shield mounted in stock location with stock bracket, stock appearing MAF (AC moulded with down turned plug) and OEM flex hose, stock intercooler with stock inlets/outlets, any size injectors in 6 stock locations, NO POWER ADDERS UNLESS THEY ARE TOTALLY INVISIBLE TO TEC JUDGES---IF WE SPOT IT---- ITS OUT!!! 8445 heads installed with GM TTY bolts with NO external mods (this includes logos), stock unmodified valve covers with oem filler cap, stock radiator and core, additional underhood wiring with no additions/deletions that aren’t supported by option tag-----only exceptions 1-alarm, 2- single relay and wiring for fuel pump upgrade, AC may be converted to R-134 and must be operational, powermaster with stock reservoir
Tranny
2004R with no external mods except for 2nd servo, stock pan and driveshaft---loop ok, any convertor or transbrake as long as it is not visible under or inside the car,
Tires/wheels
Any matched set of 15” or 16” steel or aluminum wheels allowed-------tires must be 275 or less DOT radials-----NO SLICKS
Interior
Full stock interior matching build sheet, stock shifter, only addition to gauges is boost and it must be pillar or console mounted, radio may be upgraded but must fit in stock location with no visible parts elsewhere
Exterior
No fiberglass body parts except for bumper fillers, stock operating glass windows and windshield, full size OEM aluminum or steel bumper supports, use of aluminum supports do not have to match build sheet _______in trunk, bumper shocks must be original/unmodified, no mods to sheet metal, fenders etc
Fuel system
Factory stock appearing tank, no visible additions to tank or pumps except for relay and wire upgrade, stock rail and lines
Exhaust
Downpipe must attach to stock elbow in stock fashion, downpipe must route in stock location, no flexpipe, stock appearing cat must be in stock location—may be hollowed but must be able to pass a 50 state VISUAL inspection, any single or dual exhaust allowed but must function (muffle) and exit in stock location, must be 2.5 inch or less pipes past “Y” connection at cat
This class imo is a waste of time for the simple fact that no one is going to want to alter their low mileage original GN to compete effectively in this class. Stock TTY head bolts? Thats ridiculous. What if the heads had the correct stamping on them and they were some other bolt? Is this still legal? No mention of turbos as long as they are stock appearing. This is a low 11 sec class when you spend the thousands of dollars to build an externally stock appearing super stocker engine. I second JayC's response to the hidden nitrous. I could do it and i know it would not be visible. Too many grey areas here that need to be addressed.
please read the post to jays response - then you will be more clear
please reread post after jays to clear this up
but you probbably already spent thousands of dollars making an unoriginal "other race class" motor/suspension setup that devalued your cars"original traits
please read the post to jays response - then you will be more clear
please read the post to jays response -
the rules could care less if you run xfi/n02/ported heads/bored block/built tranny, ect ect as long as its hidden
well then maybe someone will take a unoriginal not quite ruined one and return it to a higher value dollar car to race.
tty is correct-and available- no exception
please reread post after jays to clear this up
now your getting the idea-
but you probbably already spent thousands of dollars making an unoriginal "other race class" motor/suspension setup that devalued your cars"original traits
please read the post to jays response - then you will be more clear
if you and jay are bad enough -do it- its not nascar here
no grey areas at all if you read the rules-they were already addressed twice now.
please read the post to jays response -
the rules could care less if you run xfi/n02/ported heads/bored block/built tranny, ect ect as long as its hidden
Bottom line is the rules are strictly up to the official at the time of the race right?
How far is he going to go to find hidden stuff? 5,10,15 mins..... What may take 1 man 5 mins to "spot" may take another 20?
Turbo must be stock appearing right? It appears one way but with a screwdriver and a few minutes it can appear to be something else....
Members just asking questions....
Good luck with this, it should be interesting..
How far is he going to go to find hidden stuff? 5,10,15 mins..... What may take 1 man 5 mins to "spot" may take another 20?
Turbo must be stock appearing right? It appears one way but with a screwdriver and a few minutes it can appear to be something else....
Members just asking questions....
Good luck with this, it should be interesting..
inspection will be a visible one that will take 5 min
unless you suck at hiding/installing stuff or its just so boogered up , everyone will ask-wtf is that?
or want to argue that tty head bolts did not come on these cars original or you have the solid control arm option or you use turbo bolts in your fenders ect
no body will pull your valve covers/intake/turboshield/rear cover/ trans dust cover/computer ect if the install is clean and everything appears to be in order.
unless you suck at hiding/installing stuff or its just so boogered up , everyone will ask-wtf is that?
or want to argue that tty head bolts did not come on these cars original or you have the solid control arm option or you use turbo bolts in your fenders ect
no body will pull your valve covers/intake/turboshield/rear cover/ trans dust cover/computer ect if the install is clean and everything appears to be in order.
UNDER-PRESSURE
..... Member .....
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2006
No body braces?? I was almost tempted to make a few changes to run this class untill i saw that. How can these be a performance advantage or disadvantage? I just like to keep my pillars intact. Who is going to launch there stocker on drag radials without them? I value my car to much for that kind of sillyness.
That means no GNX
I missed that rule...can't imagine running without bracing.
Sgrim said:
Like I said, Organized cunfussing.
GNocide said:
So how much boost can one except running an all stock Regal with stock exhaust but with a modded waste gate?
along time ago cars where doing low 12s almost bone stock.some vendors advertised it was less than $1000
WITH NO BRACING OR SUSPENSION MODS-
CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT?
it really happened-
you may not have been around then
its amazing that anyone arguing over this has ever had there car out of the 13s
#the only confussion is people posting without understanding or fully reading
Originally Posted by Sgrim
Bottom line is the rules are strictly up to the official at the time of the race right?
wrong-they are posted here along with a large paragraph of explaination posted after the fact on page 2 or 3 in reference to jays comments
#exhaust doesnt have to be stock BUT IT HAS LIMITS-reread it
# the rules dont say you have to run any amount boost or even have a wheel in the turbo-just a stock looking turbo under the factory shield hooked up to factory plummed intake system.
WITH NO BRACING OR SUSPENSION MODS-
CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT?
it really happened-
you may not have been around then
its amazing that anyone arguing over this has ever had there car out of the 13s
#the only confussion is people posting without understanding or fully reading
Originally Posted by Sgrim
Bottom line is the rules are strictly up to the official at the time of the race right?
wrong-they are posted here along with a large paragraph of explaination posted after the fact on page 2 or 3 in reference to jays comments
#exhaust doesnt have to be stock BUT IT HAS LIMITS-reread it
# the rules dont say you have to run any amount boost or even have a wheel in the turbo-just a stock looking turbo under the factory shield hooked up to factory plummed intake system.
along time ago cars where doing low 12s almost bone stock.some vendors advertised it was less than $1000
WITH NO BRACING OR SUSPENSION MODS-
CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT?
it really happened-
you may not have been around then
its amazing that anyone arguing over this has ever had there car out of the 13s
#the only confusion is people posting without understanding or fully reading
Originally Posted by Sgrim
Bottom line is the rules are strictly up to the official at the time of the race right?
wrong-they are posted here along with a large paragraph of explaination posted after the fact on page 2 or 3 in reference to jays comments
Wrong
#exhaust doesnt have to be stock BUT IT HAS LIMITS-reread it
# the rules dont say you have to run any amount boost or even have a wheel in the turbo-just a stock looking turbo under the factory shield hooked up to factory plummed intake system.
Were you around then? DO NOT DEGRADE MEMBERS! You have to be a little thick skinned if you are going to run a race class. Can you imagine is Scott, Lonnie, or Chris Lyons got this defensive every time some body questioned a rule
Bottom line is there is NO CONCRETE RULES HERE!!! It is ALL up to interpretation by the official. I tried to stay out of this once I realized where it was going. You keep quoting my and Jay's names. We are out of this. I have a few bone stock cars but don't' see the point in this class. That is my opinion I am entitled to it. Why would I take a car worth so much more, as you put it, and do anything to it. According to your post any mods hurt the value of a car. O wait as long as I can't see it in 5 minutes it doesn't count right......
Have fun with it, I wish you the best. Please re frame from belittling other members for their posts, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Also please leave mine and Jay's name out of it too.
Post on.........& Good Luck!