Its Back!!!! TWINZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!

[SloGN]

The Isacc Alky set-up is a kewl piece. But the support sucked azz on it. The directions were not clear at all.


My friend keep having issues with his set-up and jay even told him (Quote Your just not getting it) how is that for support.

The other stupid thing was it's just a controller. One still had to purchase the other items to make it a complete kit. (pump, nozzle etc, map sensor)


Now on to the Twins crap. Do you guys even realize that with the injectors and turbo technology we have that we can make far more power than the block can stand. Thats with a big single turbo too! That big single is alot easier to install as well.

So why in the hell would i buy a twin set-up that gonna take a crap load of time to install and maintan. The extra plumbing and stuff will just make it harder to work on. If in fact i think there was a issue with the A/C compressor if i remember correctly. I'm not losing my A/C for nothing!


I still think it amazing that we are going to twin turbos and the jap guys are leaving twins and going single?

 

[The_Six]

I would like to try a set of twins but truthfully I didn’t at the time because even though I thought the price was not bad it was more then I had in the car budget and would have to save for it. If they were still available in February for the price that was quoted when this was first posted I would seriously consider it but that would be after I’m complete sure what comes with it. On top of the kit I would need the 2 stock turbos and some kind of cold air pipe figured out and these all add more to the cost to do it. Even after selling my headers and down pipe I would come close to 4k in it. For 4k I can get a nice convertor and turbo and have left over for a trans build when that comes as well.
I think if they could have got the price down to $2500 to $3000 they would have sold a few.

 

[justin84]

The Isacc Alky set-up is a kewl piece. But the support sucked azz on it. The directions were not clear at all.


My friend keep having issues with his set-up and jay even told him (Quote Your just not getting it) how is that for support.

The other stupid thing was it's just a controller. One still had to purchase the other items to make it a complete kit. (pump, nozzle etc, map sensor)


Now on to the Twins crap. Do you guys even realize that with the injectors and turbo technology we have that we can make far more power than the block can stand. Thats with a big single turbo too! That big single is alot easier to install as well.

So why in the hell would i buy a twin set-up that gonna take a crap load of time to install and maintan. The extra plumbing and stuff will just make it harder to work on. If in fact i think there was a issue with the A/C compressor if i remember correctly. I'm not losing my A/C for nothing!


I still think it amazing that we are going to twin turbos and the jap guys are leaving twins and going single?

shut up already. Whine whine. Many educated guys like the ISAC. I agree that it is expensive but those who have the money to throw at it don't mind. I am sorry that Jay said "you're just not getting it" I say that to people all the time who can't seem to follow directions and are just a tad bit slow. Yeah, you can go fast with a single turbo and bla bla bla... it's about learning what we can do and better ways to do it. I am glad you know it all about the subject... go make a kit and start selling it. You know the saying...those who can....anyway, seriously if you have nothing productive towards what the thread started out as jog on with that crud.

 

[decarlo sloan]

sweeeeeeeeeeeeet

 

[SloGN]

shut up already. Whine whine. Many educated guys like the ISAC. I agree that it is expensive but those who have the money to throw at it don't mind. I am sorry that Jay said "you're just not getting it" I say that to people all the time who can't seem to follow directions and are just a tad bit slow. Yeah, you can go fast with a single turbo and bla bla bla... it's about learning what we can do and better ways to do it. I am glad you know it all about the subject... go make a kit and start selling it. You know the saying...those who can....anyway, seriously if you have nothing productive towards what the thread started out as jog on with that crud.

Personally you can kiss my azz!

Have you got a twins set on your car?

Have you run in the 10's yet. I have and have done it using a big turbo @ 19 psi of boost.

Yeah i'm gonna go fab up twin set-up and spend a ton of money and time doing it and gain what? beside a headache. you can do it! I can to. but won't. why? cause the bigger single can do it too. BTW i had a 61mm run 103mph in the 1/8 @ 21 psi boost.

If going twins was so great why didn't buick do it 25 yrs ago. hell they had the prototype twin hot air set-up that made it into a few riverias. but never got off the ground?

BTW justin what have you brought to this thread ?

 

[JayC]

Personally you can kiss my azz!

Have you got a twins set on your car?

Have you run in the 10's yet. I have and have done it using a big turbo @ 19 psi of boost.


If going twins was so great why didn't buick do it 25 yrs ago. hell they had the prototype twin hot air set-up that made it into a few riverias. but never got off the ground?

BTW justin what have you brought to this thread ?

Wow.. 10s.. Whats that prove? Anyone can run 10s these days. 10s is the new 12s.

Its mentality like yours that is the reason no one innovates for these cars. Why put a bunch of time, money and effort into something so people can continue to preach that their ancient setup does the same thing. Good thing the people that invented TVs and telephones didnt adhere to that same way of thinking.. we'd all still be watching black and white TV and loving having to get Sarah to dial numbers for us.

Its funny how every single guy that I consider an innovator (And there arent many in the Buick world) has gotten sick of all the BS from this community and pretty much moved on. I can sure see why.

 

[TurboDave]

Wow.. 10s.. Whats that prove? Anyone can run 10s these days. 10s is the new 12s.

Its mentality like yours that is the reason no one innovates for these cars. Why put a bunch of time, money and effort into something so people can continue to preach that their ancient setup does the same thing. Good thing the people that invented TVs and telephones didnt adhere to that same way of thinking.. we'd all still be watching black and white TV and loving having to get Sarah to dial numbers for us.

Its funny how every single guy that I consider an innovator (And there arent many in the Buick world) has gotten sick of all the BS from this community and pretty much moved on. I can sure see why.

Amen.

 

[SloGN]

Wow.. 10s.. Whats that prove? Anyone can run 10s these days. 10s is the new 12s.

Its mentality like yours that is the reason no one innovates for these cars. Why put a bunch of time, money and effort into something so people can continue to preach that their ancient setup does the same thing. Good thing the people that invented TVs and telephones didnt adhere to that same way of thinking.. we'd all still be watching black and white TV and loving having to get Sarah to dial numbers for us.

Its funny how every single guy that I consider an innovator (And there arent many in the Buick world) has gotten sick of all the BS from this community and pretty much moved on. I can sure see why.

yeah your a innovator huh? did you design and build the issac umm no.

I know who did and has provided a ton of behind the scenes support cause jay @ broke wood racing has not provided any support.


hey i understand 10's is slow. but i done it on a simple set-up i didn't have to have 2 turbos and all the crap that goes with it.

so why reinvent the wheel? when what we have today works really damn good and it's simple!

Thats the key

 

[Grumpy]

Guys have been hallucinating about twins since the cars came out in 86!!! It always comes back to the $$$ involved. Come on nothing is cheap. Making that kit I am sure was very time consuming !!! I have been threw a few "builds" of custom headers and it wasn't cheap !! I'd bet even if they took deposits of sayyy $500 (eliminates half the dickbeaters right there) they wouldn't be able to sell off the first batch they made. PLUS ya have to remember this is their JOB !!! They have to make $$$$$. If ya can't then ya don't be bothered.
... ahhhhh the net. To think I almost made a TTA/Buick motor run on headers. Thank God I saw the light that wasn't shining at the end of the tunnel. :biggrin:

 

[Turbo-Archie]

hey i understand 10's is slow. but i done it a simple set-up i didn't have to have 2 turbos and all the crap that goes with it.

Same comment was true way back in the day (late 90's) when the first X was made. You just don't get it..




..

 

[Grumpy]

hey i understand 10's is slow. but i done it a simple set-up i didn't have to have 2 turbos and all the crap that goes with it.

so why reinvent the wheel? when what we have today works really damn good and it's simple!

Thats the key

10s are easier said than done. Hell look at half the signatures in here :biggrin: Look at all the stocker motors an all the other "Kool guy parts"!! Pitiful. Yes we did things simple BUT a lot can't .
............ I think the twins would really sell to the show an shine guys (Kool guy parts.. "Bling") . Do ya need em ?? hell no but guys were crying to get em. when the $$$$ thing comes up they vaporize in thin air

 

[SGRIM]

Dan, you are so right... I have tens of thousands of dollars in this twin setup and a few other header projects. This final kit is about 95% where it needs to be. A few minor changes and it is nailed... It works great now, just a comestic issue to be addressed...

Twins offer a few things. Much quicker spool time, almost instant. Also they are just cool and different. That is what the whole allure to the GN is about anyway, being different from the rest...

Jay and I are still on the same page with everything. One day I will run into a decent honest person that can weld and finish it up for good... We would market them but like Dan said, just doesn't appear to be enough market from it. We never had one customer to commit to buying a set. I think there are 5-10 who I can think of that probably would but that is about it...

 

[Grumpy]

Twins offer a few things. Much quicker spool time, almost instant. Also they are just cool and different. That is what the whole allure to the GN is about anyway, being different from the rest...

YUP !!! Lots of guys don't want to play with all the BIG parts. This was goin to a simple set up an DIFFERENT is where its at for a lot of guys !! Hell everytime I see Ken B's pics I even start hallucinating

 

[justin84]

1981 Turbo Riviera was a twin stage 2 genius. I lived in Flint and have seen the motor myself many times as I worked for a museum that had the engines. P.S., there were 5 of those engines made... But wait, you and your infinate knowledge states that it was a hot air motor which makes everyone think you mean an 84-85...Wrong. Buick did not put twins on the cars because it was never an idea, it was not practical thus putting it in a concept vehicle that was meant for being a pace car. Kinda like the pace car regal that had no roof? Apples to oranges. What have I brought to this thread? Nothing, but I have not bashed people interested in it! 10 second car? Yeah, been there done that genius. 10's aren't hard to do anymore, maybe for you they were... But for some of us they are pretty easy to find and not with twins, I get that point. That does not make this set-up any less cooler and desireable. I did not hear you mention your window licker friend and the ISAC? Perhaps because you didn't even know what it is called? It states ISAC right on the box.....Computer tough guys always amuse me. Now I have brought something to this thread.....entertainment!

 

[SloGN]

Same comment was true way back in the day (late 90's) when the first X was made. You just don't get it..




..

well if it was so good 10-12 yrs ago. why don't i see a ton of cars @ gs nats with it?



KISS method

 

[turbofabricator]

To tell the story again, and again........I built my twin turbo set-up because I kept hearing about the "twin-turbo-GNX-FBI drug chaser-600hp factory hot rod" that somebody's neighbors, nephew's, cousin had and it ran 10's from the factory." We've all heard the stories from idiots at the track or local cruise. So I started out trying to make it look like the factory made it, but had a bunch of 321 stainless I got for a song (without even a dance). So I kept going. Ya, there is a TON of time into it. It doesn't look like any other GN/T-Type out there, either. I'll bet most of the 10 second cars out there if you parked them side by side, under the hood they'd be pretty hard to tell apart. Yes I can build a low 9 second single turbo engine. (have one in the shop right now) But I wanted to do something different. Is it faster than most sinlge turbo cars out there?........No. Big deal. If it was all about running the fastest time, then Duttweiler/Galina have that market cornered. Excluding time, I have less money in my set-up than most have in a big single ball bearing turbo. Count my labor and it's WAY over the top. But I (thankfully) don't do this for a living, and love doing things that most say can't be done. But I can truthfully say that the ONLY thing that I personally didn't perform on MY build was machining the block, heads, and milling the bottom and face of the plenum. EVERYTHING else I built with my two hands (what's left of them.) I had alot of fun making it work, and except for two holes I drilled in the core support, it will all bolt on in a weekend. I, too, was going to try and make and sell a kit. It just didn't pan out. I could just hear it now......."Your damnn twin turbo kit broke my block....You OWE me a new engine you bass-turd!!" "I called you and you didn;t answer the phone!!" (ya, at 3:00am)
That's my story (and I'm sticking to it.)
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/192814-alcoholic-twins-turbos.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/194187-new-downpipe.html

 

[TurboDave]

Dan, you are so right... I have tens of thousands of dollars in this twin setup and a few other header projects. This final kit is about 95% where it needs to be. A few minor changes and it is nailed... It works great now, just a comestic issue to be addressed...

Twins offer a few things. Much quicker spool time, almost instant. Also they are just cool and different. That is what the whole allure to the GN is about anyway, being different from the rest...

Jay and I are still on the same page with everything. One day I will run into a decent honest person that can weld and finish it up for good... We would market them but like Dan said, just doesn't appear to be enough market from it. We never had one customer to commit to buying a set. I think there are 5-10 who I can think of that probably would but that is about it...

I could be wrong, but IMHO, what could have actually "sold" the setup was to get at least one system COMPLETELY done and mounted up to show that, yes, it actually fits, and it's "bolt and go".

Take all the parts off, lay them out neatly and photograph the hell out of it, and really show what all comes with the "complete" kit. Bolt and go is the secret. Not too many folks have fab skills and want to be able to bolt the system on, fire it up, and start tuning. Kit should contain EVERYTHING, headers, turbos(optional), down pipes, plumbing to get the down pipes to the stock exhaust, nuts/bolts, hoses, oil feeds, oil drains, everything. Expensive? sure. Marketable? you bet.

Just look at the crap load of money the ricers and pony car people throw at their cars to mount up plug-n-play turbo kits. Maybe that's because they aren't such "cheap azzes" like a large number in our community seem to be.

Get what I'm saying?

I still think it came down to how far the kit got. The marketing just never seemed to get to the "it's finished and ready to go" point.

Twins can still make awsome horsepower with even little turbos, and you don't have to run a ton of boost to do it. Lower boost, higher volume, same hp... Nobody says you have to run extremely high boost and blow your stock motor up. The stock motor can easilly handle making 450-500hp and live long and prosper. Mine has anyway.

Guess I better quit rambling.

 

[Grumpy]

"I called you and you didn;t answer the phone!!" (ya, at 3:00am)
That's my story (and I'm sticking to it.)
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/192814-alcoholic-twins-turbos.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/194187-new-downpipe.html

ummmm... sorry Ken that was me. I still didn't receive the twin kit to try out :biggrin:

 

[The_Six]

I’m never looking to run 10s I just want it to stand out at shows. Something different but I know my budget won’t cover it 3k is as much as I can put on the table for one right now and that would have to be out the door everything needed. I need the tacked together finish weld it yourself kit. I was hoping they would sell enough of them to keep it going until I could afford one but it looks like it’s not going to happen now.

 

[86brick]

Guys have been hallucinating about twins since the cars came out in 86!!! It always comes back to the $$$ involved. Come on nothing is cheap. Making that kit I am sure was very time consuming !!! I have been threw a few "builds" of custom headers and it wasn't cheap !! I'd bet even if they took deposits of sayyy $500 (eliminates half the dickbeaters right there) they wouldn't be able to sell off the first batch they made. PLUS ya have to remember this is their JOB !!! They have to make $$$$$. If ya can't then ya don't be bothered.
... ahhhhh the net. To think I almost made a TTA/Buick motor run on headers. Thank God I saw the light that wasn't shining at the end of the tunnel. :biggrin:

I think Dan pretty much summed up the problem with twins, $$$ involved. Lotta guys like the idea, hell might even love the idea, but just can't come up with the $$$. It's definitely a cool deal and the main attraction I see is that it's something different from everybody elses cars that you see. I've seen a couple of custom twin setups down here on Stage2 cars and I always admired the innovation, but with innovation comes the cost of paying for it! Another thing that nobody really brings up, is all of the Buick HU racing classes do NOT allow twins and for some of the guys that have the money, but still would like to run some of these classes at the different Buick events twins is an instant deal breaker.