BlackMetal
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2005
Damn, gotta move that much stuff outta the way? :frown:
hydroboost setup???
- Thread starter pressured
- Start date
Damn, gotta move that much stuff outta the way? :frown:
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
Man, you guys are stubborn. Glad that it worked out well. Yes, that line at the back of the pump is a bear to work with, but, once it's on, you are done with it for years. Those of you that have worked with the stainless hose, know it's easy, with a little practice. We are planning to build a hose set that is pre cut to length, making it much easier for you. The rest of the install is straightforward. There are 3 mounting styles. If the car has already been converted to vacuum and the vacuum pedal, we use a flat 4 bolt mounting plate, with the rod straight to the pedal. This is the same as a Monte Carlo set up. That is what Dreamcar had on his car when he started. We can also use the angled 4 bolt plate, eliminating the 4 bolt adaptor plate used on the P/M. The third way is we re-use the P/M adaptor plate, and provide a 2 bolt plate on the H/B to use those studs. This requires opening the P/M adap. plate with a die grinder, to allow the H/B 2.5" nut to go through. Chavol, it looks really good in there. I'm glad you are happy with it.
Man, you guys are stubborn. Glad that it worked out well. Yes, that line at the back of the pump is a bear to work with, but, once it's on, you are done with it for years. Those of you that have worked with the stainless hose, know it's easy, with a little practice. We are planning to build a hose set that is pre cut to length, making it much easier for you. The rest of the install is straightforward. There are 3 mounting styles. If the car has already been converted to vacuum and the vacuum pedal, we use a flat 4 bolt mounting plate, with the rod straight to the pedal. This is the same as a Monte Carlo set up. That is what Dreamcar had on his car when he started. We can also use the angled 4 bolt plate, eliminating the 4 bolt adaptor plate used on the P/M. The third way is we re-use the P/M adaptor plate, and provide a 2 bolt plate on the H/B to use those studs. This requires opening the P/M adap. plate with a die grinder, to allow the H/B 2.5" nut to go through. Chavol, it looks really good in there. I'm glad you are happy with it.
Silver Fox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2003
Dreamcar86
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
That looks great! Did you paint it or order it that way? That looks good in blue. Mine is boring after looking at yours.
Sounds like everything went quite well for you. Did you jack the car up for install? I hate to even bring this up now that you are done but you can access the PS pump from underneath the car. Oh well, you are done now and will not be messing with brakes for a very long time if ever.
Welcome to the club!
Hi Bob. I am strongly considering upgrading to one of your hydroboosts. My question is, on your hydrobosts, is it a plug n play set up? Or will there be any mods necessary?
If purchased it will go on my 87 Turbo T which still has the stock powermaster set up.
HB install
Dreamcar It came painted. Needed to change out AC compressor anyhow so it worked out fine working from the top. Initialy Tried getting to pump from bottom put the car up on jack stands but I Couldn't get any leverage/purchase on the one fitting on top of PS pump to loosen it from the bottom. Some of those lines seemed like they were fused/welded together, I just sawzalled em off. They wouldn't come apart/loosen with an 8 foot cheater bar
Dreamcar It came painted. Needed to change out AC compressor anyhow so it worked out fine working from the top. Initialy Tried getting to pump from bottom put the car up on jack stands but I Couldn't get any leverage/purchase on the one fitting on top of PS pump to loosen it from the bottom. Some of those lines seemed like they were fused/welded together, I just sawzalled em off. They wouldn't come apart/loosen with an 8 foot cheater bar
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
Yes. It bolts right on. The m/c lines get switched, but everything is a bolt on. Chavol had all those adjustable prop valve and line lock valves to re-route. This not the usual, but easy to deal with. The stainless hoses are left long, so you can route as you like. Mark them and cut with a cut off wheel. If you use the lower cost hose set, it has rubber returns and is easy to connect. Nothing to it. The car will out-perform itself better than any other mod you can make, and better than when it was new. Dream car says his car is not only faster, but feels safer, with the Hydroboost
Yes. It bolts right on. The m/c lines get switched, but everything is a bolt on. Chavol had all those adjustable prop valve and line lock valves to re-route. This not the usual, but easy to deal with. The stainless hoses are left long, so you can route as you like. Mark them and cut with a cut off wheel. If you use the lower cost hose set, it has rubber returns and is easy to connect. Nothing to it. The car will out-perform itself better than any other mod you can make, and better than when it was new. Dream car says his car is not only faster, but feels safer, with the Hydroboost
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
That beautiful blue unit was one of our SEMA show display units. It is a powder coated unit. The gloss black or silver colors are most popular. It sure glows, doesn't it?
That beautiful blue unit was one of our SEMA show display units. It is a powder coated unit. The gloss black or silver colors are most popular. It sure glows, doesn't it?
GNBRETT
Pelennor Fields
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
You need to put a link in your signature so people dont have to search for your website....
I don't see Buick listed in the site. Are they $645.00 as they are for the other makes?
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
I wasn't aware of how to add a link, but would be happy to. At powerbrakesonline, there is a button on the left, marked "catalog brochure" click there, then a catalog will appear. Click on the cover , and above that will appear "next". Clicking next will open the pages. The part number we use for the G bodies is 2772-211. This includes the mounting plate, and the master. The hose set is 2775-601 for an all stainless set. Part no. 2775 -605 is the lower cost hose set using ss pressure, and rubber type returns.
I wasn't aware of how to add a link, but would be happy to. At powerbrakesonline, there is a button on the left, marked "catalog brochure" click there, then a catalog will appear. Click on the cover , and above that will appear "next". Clicking next will open the pages. The part number we use for the G bodies is 2772-211. This includes the mounting plate, and the master. The hose set is 2775-601 for an all stainless set. Part no. 2775 -605 is the lower cost hose set using ss pressure, and rubber type returns.
incubus2432
Douchebag
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2006
I just ordered my hydroboost a few days ago and was called and told it's shipping today. :biggrin: (no rush actually since we just got a foot of snow over the last few days)
Thanks to all in this thread for helping me make my decision and to Bob and his crew for answering my questions/concerns.
I'm looking forward to seeing the difference this Spring. I was planning on swapping to a 13" Baer front disc setup and changing the rear drums to disc as well. I'll swap the rears no matter what but I may just keep the front stock size and upgrade the rotors/calipers if the braking improvement I've been hearing about with the hydroboost is true. I had to do something since my Power Master started taking a dive last fall and I don't want to deal with it. Swapping to the hydroboost is more expensive than the vacuum but if I can go with a more conservative disc setup I may actually save money doing it this way.
Thanks to all in this thread for helping me make my decision and to Bob and his crew for answering my questions/concerns.
I'm looking forward to seeing the difference this Spring. I was planning on swapping to a 13" Baer front disc setup and changing the rear drums to disc as well. I'll swap the rears no matter what but I may just keep the front stock size and upgrade the rotors/calipers if the braking improvement I've been hearing about with the hydroboost is true. I had to do something since my Power Master started taking a dive last fall and I don't want to deal with it. Swapping to the hydroboost is more expensive than the vacuum but if I can go with a more conservative disc setup I may actually save money doing it this way.
HydroboostBob,
So with this system the small 10 inch discs up front are adequate for good stopping? Is it more about pressure than surface area. What about fade with the smaller discs? I like the sound of this system but is it equal/better than changing to LS1 brakes up front?
Marty
So with this system the small 10 inch discs up front are adequate for good stopping? Is it more about pressure than surface area. What about fade with the smaller discs? I like the sound of this system but is it equal/better than changing to LS1 brakes up front?
Marty
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
Sure, here goes. The hydroboost is a remove the P/M, and bolt the H/B master in it's place. You may have to enlarge the hole in the P/M bracket to allow the H/B mount nut thru. It uses the same pedal as the P/M, so no changes there. If the car has already been converted to the vacuum booster pedal, no problem. We have a flat bracket for that. The master lines are switched. We have a hose set that uses stainless hoses. The h/B end is swedged on, and the other end is left long, for you to route where you want. It's easiest to mark, then cut the ss hose with an air cut off tool. The hose set uses a re-usable end for the ss hose. Adaptors are installed in the pump and box ports to connect the a-n hoses. An option is to replace that plastic p/s reservoir with a polished p/s reservoir that includes the extra return port for the H/B return hose, This eliminates tee'ing the returns, and some possible pump whining noises.
Sure, here goes. The hydroboost is a remove the P/M, and bolt the H/B master in it's place. You may have to enlarge the hole in the P/M bracket to allow the H/B mount nut thru. It uses the same pedal as the P/M, so no changes there. If the car has already been converted to the vacuum booster pedal, no problem. We have a flat bracket for that. The master lines are switched. We have a hose set that uses stainless hoses. The h/B end is swedged on, and the other end is left long, for you to route where you want. It's easiest to mark, then cut the ss hose with an air cut off tool. The hose set uses a re-usable end for the ss hose. Adaptors are installed in the pump and box ports to connect the a-n hoses. An option is to replace that plastic p/s reservoir with a polished p/s reservoir that includes the extra return port for the H/B return hose, This eliminates tee'ing the returns, and some possible pump whining noises.
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
Oops, wrong place for the install question. The newer S10 spindle and brake looks nice, but does not really increase the piston area, or the pad length. A longer pad does not increase the stopping power, it justs lasts longer. Pressure is what clamps the rotor. This can be done by increasing the surface area of the caliper piston, or the line pressure coming out of the booster/master, or both. This PSI, or pressure per square inch. Increasing the piston area may require a larger bore master to fill the volume needed to move the piston, The larger master is hader to push, therefore requiring more booster power to bring the pressure up. The stock 2.5" caliper piston and pad is still roughly the same, or more than the newer style pad and caliper. They will do little, if the booster is weak. The weakness of most brakes is the rear brake pressure. The factories reduce the pressure so low, that they will not lock up with bald tires in the rain. This is for their liability. You see most cars with black dust all over the front wheels, but not the rears. They send 80% pressure to the fronts. On a car with a real frame, it is best to re-proportion the system to achieve a 60%-40% brake balance. When the rears can apply the brakes hard enough to pull back on the entire chassis, instead of all brake force being transmitted thru the front a-frames, the car handles completely different. It no longer fries the rotors and pads, and the a-frames distort alignment less. So, to answer, with a Hydroboost and the 7/8" rear cylinders, using all quality pads and shoes. the G.N. brake system will stop, and work fine for all street, highway use, and some drag race use. If you are road racing, or repeated stops over 100mph, then you will need more friction material in there to absorb the heat. 11" rear drums are the most powerful, but require a rear end change.
Oops, wrong place for the install question. The newer S10 spindle and brake looks nice, but does not really increase the piston area, or the pad length. A longer pad does not increase the stopping power, it justs lasts longer. Pressure is what clamps the rotor. This can be done by increasing the surface area of the caliper piston, or the line pressure coming out of the booster/master, or both. This PSI, or pressure per square inch. Increasing the piston area may require a larger bore master to fill the volume needed to move the piston, The larger master is hader to push, therefore requiring more booster power to bring the pressure up. The stock 2.5" caliper piston and pad is still roughly the same, or more than the newer style pad and caliper. They will do little, if the booster is weak. The weakness of most brakes is the rear brake pressure. The factories reduce the pressure so low, that they will not lock up with bald tires in the rain. This is for their liability. You see most cars with black dust all over the front wheels, but not the rears. They send 80% pressure to the fronts. On a car with a real frame, it is best to re-proportion the system to achieve a 60%-40% brake balance. When the rears can apply the brakes hard enough to pull back on the entire chassis, instead of all brake force being transmitted thru the front a-frames, the car handles completely different. It no longer fries the rotors and pads, and the a-frames distort alignment less. So, to answer, with a Hydroboost and the 7/8" rear cylinders, using all quality pads and shoes. the G.N. brake system will stop, and work fine for all street, highway use, and some drag race use. If you are road racing, or repeated stops over 100mph, then you will need more friction material in there to absorb the heat. 11" rear drums are the most powerful, but require a rear end change.
Good information Bob. I really wasn't going to use the s10 stuff since I have the GTA wheels. What I was wondering about was the LS1 12" brake conversion. Common sense tells me it will be an improvement over 10" rotors but the PM might be working to hard.
BG customs use to sell an 11" drum package for the rears, is there nothing out there that would bolt on to our rears with just some drilling?
Thanks Marty
BG customs use to sell an 11" drum package for the rears, is there nothing out there that would bolt on to our rears with just some drilling?
Thanks Marty
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
I"m all for bigger brakes. It is what I do. It just seems that most people would rather spend money on pretty wheels or things that make the car go faster. People take brakes for granted, until they don't have any. Those people who have experienced brake failures come back with new beliefs. They put brakes FIRST. So, the most brake for the buck on almost any car, is the upgrade to the Hydroboost. It has all the reserve power to set the car down quickly, with minimal rotor heat. This allows one to keep the 15" wheels, and save money on other things. The 7/8" rear w/cyl, though, is critical on the G.N. I love 11" rear drum brakes. I prefer to install those on Ford rear axles, and remove the wimpy 10" Mustang brakes. The Galaxie 11" brakes will pull back the chassis, hard. If you look at truck air brakes, 95% are DRUMS. 80,000lbs careening down a mountian will vaporize disc pads and rotors in about 4 minutes. Every one thinks that 4 wheel disc brakes are the magic answer. They know some guy that has them, and they work great. Check out the size of the vacuum booster it takes to make them work. It's huge. A lot of guys run to the junk yard, and pull out a Versailles rear axle, thinking it has the best of everything. They forget to open the hood, and see what operates those 4 discs. It is a HYDROBOOST.
I"m all for bigger brakes. It is what I do. It just seems that most people would rather spend money on pretty wheels or things that make the car go faster. People take brakes for granted, until they don't have any. Those people who have experienced brake failures come back with new beliefs. They put brakes FIRST. So, the most brake for the buck on almost any car, is the upgrade to the Hydroboost. It has all the reserve power to set the car down quickly, with minimal rotor heat. This allows one to keep the 15" wheels, and save money on other things. The 7/8" rear w/cyl, though, is critical on the G.N. I love 11" rear drum brakes. I prefer to install those on Ford rear axles, and remove the wimpy 10" Mustang brakes. The Galaxie 11" brakes will pull back the chassis, hard. If you look at truck air brakes, 95% are DRUMS. 80,000lbs careening down a mountian will vaporize disc pads and rotors in about 4 minutes. Every one thinks that 4 wheel disc brakes are the magic answer. They know some guy that has them, and they work great. Check out the size of the vacuum booster it takes to make them work. It's huge. A lot of guys run to the junk yard, and pull out a Versailles rear axle, thinking it has the best of everything. They forget to open the hood, and see what operates those 4 discs. It is a HYDROBOOST.
Good points and good stuff here. I might be talking to you soon. If you can please e mail me an actual cost with your reservoir and hoses plus shipping to turbogta@sbcglobal.net.
POWERBRAKEBOB
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Hydroboost Vs Vacuum Vs Powermaster
Well, I thought I answered this, but here goes. The H/B bolts on to the P/M bracket, and uses the same pedal as the P/M. Using that P/M bracket requires opening up the hole in the steel bracket approx 1/4" to allow the H/B mounting nut to go thru. The master lines end up being switched. Everything there is a bolt-on. We use stainless hoses, as they are the easiest to connect. Remove the rubber hoses from the p/s, (it's sometimes tight, and has to be cut off) We swedge one end of the hose with a banjo swivel for the H/B, and leave the other end long. You route it, mark it and cut it. The hose set comes with re-usable ends. If we get enough orders, we could provide for the forum guys, a pre cut, hook up directly, set of hoses. Bleeding the master is simple, fill it, with the cap loose, and open a front and a rear bleeder. It will gravity bleed, and then 1 pedal pump per wheel (usually)will clear the last bit of air. Fill the p/s reservoir, and crank the engine until it picks up the fluid. It's best to have the front wheels off the ground, When the engine starts, shut it off, and re-fill, to prevent the pump from sucking air. Re-start, and slowly turn the steering wheel lock to lock, gently. This will purge the air from the steering box. The H/B will self bleed from the p/s flow. That's it.
Well, I thought I answered this, but here goes. The H/B bolts on to the P/M bracket, and uses the same pedal as the P/M. Using that P/M bracket requires opening up the hole in the steel bracket approx 1/4" to allow the H/B mounting nut to go thru. The master lines end up being switched. Everything there is a bolt-on. We use stainless hoses, as they are the easiest to connect. Remove the rubber hoses from the p/s, (it's sometimes tight, and has to be cut off) We swedge one end of the hose with a banjo swivel for the H/B, and leave the other end long. You route it, mark it and cut it. The hose set comes with re-usable ends. If we get enough orders, we could provide for the forum guys, a pre cut, hook up directly, set of hoses. Bleeding the master is simple, fill it, with the cap loose, and open a front and a rear bleeder. It will gravity bleed, and then 1 pedal pump per wheel (usually)will clear the last bit of air. Fill the p/s reservoir, and crank the engine until it picks up the fluid. It's best to have the front wheels off the ground, When the engine starts, shut it off, and re-fill, to prevent the pump from sucking air. Re-start, and slowly turn the steering wheel lock to lock, gently. This will purge the air from the steering box. The H/B will self bleed from the p/s flow. That's it.
DougsfastZ
4.1
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2004
I've done a write up on my install:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/br...s/246487-hydroboost-install-writeup-pics.html
Doug D
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/br...s/246487-hydroboost-install-writeup-pics.html
Doug D
V6UnderPressure
The Artist FKA Scott4DMny
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I thought the power steering pump goes to the HB first and then the steering box. Should the filter be after the pump then?
