How Fast On A True Hot Air?

[boostmaster]

After being a member of this board a little over a year now I see the posts from both tech areas and notice that while with few upgrades some intercooled cars are running in or damn near the high 11's, low 12's, at the same time many of us in the non- intercooled world are struggling to break into the high 13's. With the exception of Lee Thompson, Drew Carlton, and very, very few others. Is it just me? Even with hot air I would expect high - mid 12's would easily obtainable with a few bolt-ons and some tuning, like on the cold airs, but I guess I was just dreaming.

 

[TurboRegal84]

The trick with these cars is get all of the motor exhaust replaced: Headers, Crossover, Downpipe, and a nice or no exhaust system. Then run race gas and turn up the boost! I also experienced HUGE gains with a stock ported intake, and ported heads!

With a True Hot-Air set up...I have gone 12.80 @ 109 MPH with only 18psi of boost and a VERY light mist of alcohol. The car had a 2.10 60' and it spun very hard.

I currently run 24psi of boost, and maybe in the near future I will take the car back to the track to get a low/mid 12 Sec pass.

This is using ALL stock internals (cam exc) with the current Buildup in the signature:

Here is a terrible picture of my "Stock Appearing" Hot-Air Buildup!

http://community.webshots.com/user/turboregal84


Note...To see the picture click on the picture, and then where it says "View" change it to: Normal

 

[BlackBuick84]

Originally posted by boostmaster
After being a member of this board a little over a year now I see the posts from both tech areas and notice that while with few upgrades some intercooled cars are running in or damn near the high 11's, low 12's, at the same time many of us in the non- intercooled world are struggling to break into the high 13's. With the exception of Lee Thompson, Drew Carlton, and very, very few others. Is it just me? Even with hot air I would expect high - mid 12's would easily obtainable with a few bolt-ons and some tuning, like on the cold airs, but I guess I was just dreaming.

When u say "few upgrades", i hope yer talkin bout bigger turbo's and such, coz it seems pretty hard for mostly stock intercooled TRs to get into the low 12s. Theres a guy in my area that has a decent size turbo(cant remember what size) and cant break mid 12s. I think it all depends on tuning and the right mods. Check gnttype.org....the hot air example over there was into the 11s. I've been lookin around at people's posts, and seems like a ta49/54 w/ a stall, ported heads/intake, alky, and the small mods on a stock block would be enough to put up some decent ETs w/o an intercooler. I wouldnt know though since i'm stinkin broke right now, but thats my plan if I still have the car and the $ at the same time.

BTW, its a little easier for the 86/87s to get into the 12s coz they run low 14secs stock....hot airs are like mid 15s or so.

 

[Chad Oliver]

a little different perspective

Hotair cars have a lower buy in, so alot more drivers are underfunded when it comes to mods, repairs and upkeep. In a few more years I would say there will be alot of hotairs in the 12's and 11's. We have the technology, the know how, time to get the equiptment. hopefully the vendors will realize this and bear with us while we regroup

I think TurboRegal84 hit the nail right on the head with the combo mentioned in his post. Also I don't think we tune our cars as well as the intercooled guys are doing. Just me babbling again.

 

[boostmaster]

Check the posts Wfo you got guys over there stock everything except upgraded chip and tires running 12...10's-12.50's. Yes tuning is an issue but even at that I can't see why most hot airs shouldn't be running 12..50's with our bolt ons. Don't get me wrong I'm not giving up on my hot air and I plan on keeping it hot. Although I am looking for an intercooled car so I can have the best of both worlds, keeping my hot air close to stock appearing as posible is what I'm all about. It just pisses me off that we don't get any respect and I hate to say it until we start running like we should we won't ever get any. You can barely give away a hot air even though it's almost the same car. I'm tired of people telling me" all man get rid of that thing you can't make it run" or "put an intercooler on it then it will run". I just wanna know why can't we run now.

 

[JayLashua]

Bah! My setup consists of a '87 stock turbo, adj wastegate, testing a custom chip, atr 2.5" exhaust, '84 maf sensor, '87 ecm, and i can barely outrun a 2G turbo DSM !!

I think the headers are good in low ET goals, but for 12s/13s stocks should be fine.. the major bottle necks are the downpipe and up-pipe... and turbo ofcourse, though it can pump out 22 psi, its too hot to be effective, a TA-33 or clocked 49 would really cook though.. That's going into a $600 investment though :/

but one curious thing, I notice turboregal84 has a stock up-pipe?

I have both a up and downpipe, but havent gotten time to put the downpipe on.. how much of a difference did the downpipe make on your combo, Herb?

 

[cool 84]

I know I don't count because my first mod was an intercooler but with just a couple mods I was terrorizing the streetracing scene here. With nothing but an intercooler and K&N (no pump or chip) I went 13.9@101mph with only 13psi boost and a 2.2 60'. Everything else was bone stock. Never got to run it with the boost turned up and race chip like how it always ran. After a downpipe, uppipe, homeported intake, chip, fuelpump & injectors, and TA49 I could just barely inch away from two of the Viper GTS's around here from a 2-3rd gear roll. From a dead stop it was a 2 carlength win everytime. I spent a lot of time tuning and wasnt afraid of cranking the boost. Mods were just boltons except for the intake but it was only a day's work. I really think a lot of these cars just aren't tuned like was said before. Once you get the bottlenecks out like the DP and intake (maybe add an intercooler ), there's no reason the hotairs won't respond just like the later cars to mods.

 

[WH1]

There's a guy by the name of John Bruce, here in B.G., with a true HotAir that consistenly runs low, low 12's and has run a high 11. He's got an 85 GN with a TA-33, LT Dp and headers and the usual mods including alchol. He's owned and raced it since it was new and it's mint, a very beautiful car.

 

[Dwayne]

I gotta disagree about the stock exhaust manifolds being good for 12 sec. et's. They are the most restrictive thing GM has ever made. When Lee was running 13.50's and switched to his homemade reconstructed stock manifolds, he started running 12.80's with a 2.5" downpipe.

4 years ago at Morroco IN, I drove the car to a 11.42 @ 114 with stock block,heads, and a Ruggles 210-210. and no alcky.

Patience and careful tuning is what is needed to make a hot air car run.

I gotta agree about John Bruce's car, it is nice and fast. I have seen him run 12.0's at BG. When he gets his alky tuned in, he will also be running 11's...good luck to all.......Dwayne

 

[TurboRegal84]

The 3" Downpipe that I put on my car was good for a - .3 in the 1/4, and a good amount of MPH. I put on Headers and a 3" Downpipe, and I went from 14.7 to a 14.0...92MPH to 97 MPH....BIG GAIN!


I use the stock inlet pipe because I like the exhaust volume to be very “full” in the pipe before the turbo. This means that I pipe is never large enough to effect spool up. Granted I might see better times with the ATR peice, but I have great spool-up with the stock inlet pipe. Maybe I will switch over to the ATR just to see if I get a gain from it.

ALL of the stock Hot-Air Headers crack where the passenger side header makes a turn up torwards the inlet pipe. I have never seen a set that did not have a healthy crack in that area.

 

[JayLashua]

ok... how long it take you to get that stock header off? it seems like more than a PITA with that guard on it and all...

 

[turbo6x2]

It's kinda like comparing apples to oranges when you compare the two. For one thing the intercooler and some modification to the intake for the 86/87 makes a difference. I don't think you see too many per say fast hot airs cause it's not been the norm. Trust me I feel your pain, when you say we don't get respect, but come across a fellow hot air and then you know there are those who really appreciate our cars. I never really built this for anyone else just for me. And the cost to make a hot air go fast is double that of an intercooled cars, just because they have a lot more vendor support. However if we make a stand and a point I think more vendors will support us. The big thing is tuning. Again apples compared to oranges, what works on the intercooled may not work the same on the hot air. Tuning will get us into good numbers along with all the same factors as the intercooled cars. It just takes time too, just cause we chose to be different we are not any less important.

 

[FJM568]

Personally, w/flame suit on, I think the 11 sec recipe for the hotairs on the gnttype site is a little bit suspect, IMO...You can get them into the 12s, but low 12s-mid to high 11s is really tough to do with a "stock" hotair...

edit...Go here http://www.gnttype.org/general/hitechuncool.html for more info on when Lee Thompson ran low 11s in his TR and compare all the mods he had to do to run it with the "recipe"...You'll see what I'm talking about...Lee went through a lot to get it to run...

 

[JayLashua]

Those recipes kinda suck actually,

the saucy recipe is the only one with a half decent write-up...

I know of a hotair that went 12.90 stock with a custom chip from joe lubrant, 9in converter, posi rear, 100 octane gas and 25 psi on the stock turbo..

the second pass it blew up though..

 

[turbo6x2]

I have to agree that Lee did do a lot to get it into the 11's but like Big Daddy said that they also tuned, which is something everyone should do before the big upgrades so the car is running the best it can. Throwing money at it just doesn't tune it. Just my two cents... I would love to see a bunch of us get into the 11's, that would wake up a lot of people. Even if we have to do it with some upgrades. Like the intercooled cars don't...

 

[Dwayne]

update.

Last night at Muncie Dragway, Lee Thompson went 10.69 @ 127 mph

 

[JayLashua]

on a hotair? with no ic?

 

[JayLashua]

ha! my car's in your hotair folder? cool, but back then it was running much ****ty.. i should take a new photo with the boost gauge saying 16 psi and no knock

 

[FJM568]

Lee's not IC'd, but last I heard, he is running something like alky or methanol injection...If I'm wrong, someone correct me...Just what I've heard, and I don't remember who said it...And isn't it a 4.1L Stage motor now with a stock "appearing" hotair intake???

But needless to say, over the years, Lee probably has put more money in that car than even he wants to know...

 

[b4black]

Originally posted by TurboRegal84
The trick with these cars is get all of the motor exhaust replaced: Headers, Crossover, Downpipe, and a nice or no exhaust system.

We talked about this before. 84/85 exhaust sucks, 86/87 is fine is the general opinion.

But the 84/85 shares the same driver's side and crossover as the 86/87. So instead of buying a complete exhaust, just get the downpipe and the passenger header. These two peices probably make the biggest difference. Don't waste money on the crossover/DS header until someone proves they are a problem (remember, they only need to flow ½ the exhaust )

The jury is still out on the up-pipe, IMO. No one has ever tried a stocker and an aftermarket back-to-back as far as I know. Wouldn't be hard to do at the track.