Holy EFR Batman!

[TurboDave]

Hopefully John(GNX405) won't mind my posting a few pix of his new Borg Warner EFR turbo, mounted up on his hybrid Mazda. But I just have to share this monster work of art with the community.
Got a look at this during our Christmas vacation visit to see Michelle and John.
Apologies for the crumby phone quality pix.
It's an EFR 8374.

Notice anything unusual? Other than the obvious?

OH, and please excuse the stupid spelling error in the thread title!!

 

[Heisenberg]

That's some sick work.

To get a good insight into turbo related stuff - I follow the Mazda boards.
Those guys know their turbo stuff - since it is so critical to them going fast.
And those "ricers" do know a thing or two about turbos and interesting things.
They are the ones that turned me onto "Inconel" studs and fast lock fasteners for turbo / exhaust connecitons.

 

[Heisenberg]

The only obvious thing I see is the groddy water pump shaft sticking out - all rusted as usual!
A rubber cap fixes that mess.

 

[Nick Micale]

How well does it spool with that twin scroll exhaust housing Dave?

 

[TurboDave]

How well does it spool with that twin scroll exhaust housing Dave?

He says it spools WAY quicker than the TA62 it replaced!! Especially surprising with that big 1.05 twin scroll housing!

 

[TurboDave]

That's some sick work.

To get a good insight into turbo related stuff - I follow the Mazda boards.
Those guys know their turbo stuff - since it is so critical to them going fast.
And those "ricers" do know a thing or two about turbos and interesting things.
They are the ones that turned me onto "Inconel" studs and fast lock fasteners for turbo / exhaust connecitons.

There's not much Mazda left of that car except for the body and front suspension. (LC2 power, thunderbird super/turbo coupe IRS).

 

[TurboDave]

Anything unusual? Look closely at the compressor housing.

BTW, here's the specs as I understand them:

Compressor Specifications

• Compressor Type: Forged-Milled Wheel (FMW) Extended Tip
• Compressor Wheel OD (exducer): 83mm
• Compressor Wheel Inducer: 62.6mm
• Max Flow Rate: 79 lb/min
• Built-in BOV: All EFR compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV.
• Compressor Housing Connections:
  • Inlet: 4" Ported Shroud Hose Coupler
  • Outlet: 2.5" Hose Coupler w/ integrated Vband option

Turbine Specifications

• Turbine Type: Low Inertia Gamma-Ti Turbine Wheel
• Turbine Wheel OD: 74mm
• Stainless Steel Turbine Housing - The EFR 8374 is available in (3) different turbine housing configurations, all use 3" vband (92mm OD):
  • 1.05 A/R T4 Twin Scroll (external WG)- Part # 179393
  Features
  • Dual Row Ceramic Ball Bearings - lowest friction and fastest spool/response, most extreme durability, built-in oil control orifice - (aka oil restrictor) **no restrictor can be used with EFR turbos
  • Watercooled Center Section - watercooling is recommended, 14mm banjo bolts
  • Double seals on both turbine and compressor end for extreme durability and resistance to any oil seepage
  • Boost Control Solenoid Valve Integrated to Compressor Housing
  • Integrated Speed Sensor mounting provisions

 

[turbo89]

it has the RPM sensor feature ,,, as well as a recirc valve

and yes they work awesome... they had some issues early on with bearing failures .. but have been pretty solid sense .. Great turbo's .. full of features

 

[TurboDave]

it has the RPM sensor feature

Give that man a cigar! (speed sensor).

 

[turbo89]

Damn ... looks like the Cat is out of the bag now

tried them back in 09 /10 on another application and they are remarkable ... but they did have bearing issues up until not too long ago.

simple .. they perform

 

[TurboDave]

Ya, the bearing issues are definatly cured!

 

[rmar]

Dave, I'll say one thing your daughter married a perfectionist, if they own it I can guarantee you won't see it until its right. That thing is bad.

 

[robzombie]

That turbo has some trick stuff but, 62mm comp wheel with a [relatively] low hp output for a little over 2 Grand.

It maxes out at 79lbs. hr. and is rated to 750hp. I would like to think that with all the bad azz new technology thrown at this turbo it should be an animal.

Is it or isn't it as good as all the hype, I don't know but I will be all ears.

 

[turbo89]

That turbo has some trick stuff but, 62mm comp wheel with a [relatively] low hp output for a little over 2 Grand.

It maxes out at 79lbs. hr. and is rated to 750hp. I would like to think that with all the bad azz new technology thrown at this turbo it should be an animal.

Is it or isn't it as good as all the hype, I don't know but I will be all ears.

Prices aren't bad considering what you are getting.. and if you shop around... sure its more than the typical precision .. but the performance is night and day ..
and you won't be putting in seals in 1000 miles .

Response is really worthy of praise ....

I have tried a few running a specific setup.. and they will run away with ease from the "typical" recipe cars .. they really run .. and it ain't hype

 

[TurboDave]

Prices aren't bad considering what you are getting.. and if you shop around... sure its more than the typical precision .. but the performance is night and day ..
and you won't be putting in seals in 1000 miles .

Response is really worthy of praise ....

I have tried a few running a specific setup.. and they will run away with ease from the "typical" recipe cars .. they really run .. and it ain't hype

Great points. Ya, it's a bit pricey, but as stated there more there, in what you get! and they will absolutely out spool ANYTHING in their size class!

These EFR's though are huge in the tuner market and they're making some huge numbers with them!! As you can see, these turbo's aren't exactly made to cater to the Buick community, which is why only the most turbo savy of folks are going to make the changes to the car needed to even run these. It takes major changes just to mount one up to our cars, even if you decide to go with the quicker internally wastegated turbine housing.
There's one thing you'll NEVER have to do with an internally wastegated BW turbo, and that is massaging or enlarging the wastegate hole like you HAVE to do with the other brands to make good boost and maintain solid control. It's simply because the turbine housing's design is so far advanced in flow, and the waste gate hole/puck assembly is 75% the size of the turbine exducer!

 

[turbo89]

Great points. Ya, it's a bit pricey, but as stated there more there, in what you get! and they will absolutely out spool ANYTHING in their size class!

These EFR's though are huge in the tuner market and they're making some huge numbers with them!! As you can see, these turbo's aren't exactly made to cater to the Buick community, which is why only the most turbo savy of folks are going to make the changes to the car needed to even run these. It takes major changes just to mount one up to our cars, even if you decide to go with the quicker internally wastegated turbine housing.
There's one thing you'll NEVER have to do with an internally wastegated BW turbo, and that is massaging or enlarging the wastegate hole like you HAVE to do with the other brands to make good boost and maintain solid control. It's simply because the turbine housing's design is so far advanced in flow, and the waste gate hole/puck assembly is 75% the size of the turbine exducer!

Dave its not all that bad... a 3 to 4 bolt convertor or put on a 4 bolt flange.. some rework to make a vband dp work ... and a few other small things .. its not all that bad

Its not a bolt on NO ... but its not like making a STAGE II headed car work ...

it wont be long before a bolt and go solution is around .. some guys just try to keep it close to the vest

The Stainless housings rock too

 

[robzombie]

I would like to see what kind of power he makes with it and at what boost level.

From what I've read it will run to 45psi, but if that's where it makes the advertised 750Hp, I won't be that impressed as there are turbos out there doing that on much less boost.

That turbo does have the warm fuzzy WOW factor looks, but the proof is in the numbers it can put up.

Maybe he will share with you TD and you could share with us.

 

[turbobitt]

Welcome to the world of Borg Warner turbos. I'm sure that will out perform anything in a Garret based platform.
AG

 

[bison]

I would like to see what kind of power he makes with it and at what boost level.

From what I've read it will run to 45psi, but if that's where it makes the advertised 750Hp, I won't be that impressed as there are turbos out there doing that on much less boost.

That turbo does have the warm fuzzy WOW factor looks, but the proof is in the numbers it can put up.

Maybe he will share with you TD and you could share with us.

Less than 1% of the guys on here even have an engine capable of 79lbs/min at any pressure ratio. Id bet if certain class racers used that turbo they could see more than 79 lbs/min. Also the compressor maps are fairly wide and i look forward to pushing the EFR 9180 within the next year. The maps on these turbos are fat and tall so they can cover a wider range of applications. Id expect spoolup to be twice that of typical ball bearing technolgy for similar compressor sizes.

 

[robzombie]

Less than 1% of the guys on here even have an engine capable of 79lbs/min at any pressure ratio. Id bet if certain class racers used that turbo they could see more than 79 lbs/min. Also the compressor maps are fairly wide and i look forward to pushing the EFR 9180 within the next year. The maps on these turbos are fat and tall so they can cover a wider range of applications. Id expect spoolup to be twice that of typical ball bearing technolgy for similar compressor sizes.

I'm waiting for some results before I pull the trigger on a new turbo, hopefully there will be some results posted within the next two months as that's when i would like to get my next turbo.

Brian, from what you know so far about these new turbos what would you expect it to run [EFR 9180] T4 twin scroll

Low 10's at what boost level???