E85 Update
- Thread starter d0n_3d
- Start date
sydwyndr said:
??? I think you mean it to be the other way around. You need MUCH more injector. In order to support the power I am trying to make, I will need 84 lbers just to make 700 horse to the flywheel on alcohol. (and this is at 100% DC) I would need ECM tunability to control the fuel much higher. Then I would need a fuel pump capable of supporting that power safely (not a Walbro, more like a Weldon). Then this would work perfectly...but who wants to go through all that??? I guess if your car is already set up then it would be good for ya...but I'm crossing a fine line I think.
ryeguy87GN
87FSTGN
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2005
E-85
E-85 is about 2.42 a gallon here in southern MN. Can save quite a bit if you drive a lot.
E-85 is about 2.42 a gallon here in southern MN. Can save quite a bit if you drive a lot.
72firebird
Active Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2004
Quiky One said:
no 50s physically cannot flow enough fuel to support running on E85 on his combination. You may be able to stay with the 50lbs chip while running 72lbs injectors and be a lot closer, but like Don said he would need atleast 84 lbs injectors to even begin to be able to flow enough to run E85 at 100% duty cycle.
granatl said:
I wouldn't exactly get on it with this stuff until it's dialed down first. You are way too lean to be boosting alot. My car really loves this stuff and the throttle response is instant. I'm getting about the same gas mileage as I would with regular 93. But I know for a fact this wouldn't be the case if I had the fueling system proper. I'm just about dry on this tank though! I'll play around more with it once I get my computer situation straightened out. I might even go with a Big Stuff 3. Hell might as well, I'm just about to that point anyways.
sydwyndr said:
I did say that...and it's true! You need approx 30% more E85 volume JUST to get even with gas. This is why you would need bigger injectors and pump than normal. If you ever look at an alcohol car making big power, you will notice they all run 16 (160lb) injector setups because you need ALOT of alcohol to make power. But alcohol WILL make more horsepower once the tables are even with gas... volume-wise.
I think our Buicks will love this stuff if you get the fuel system good. Meaning big fuel pump, big injectors, and tuning ability with the computer (not just burning chips, I mean FULL fuel tunability).
rb68rr said:
You will need bigger injectors for sure...depends on what kind of power you want to make too. If you have a mild street car with a smaller turbo then I would do the high impedence 65 lbers like what I have since those are really stout injectors. There's guys that run nearly 100 psi of fuel pressure with those things.
Secondly, you would need a translator pro setup with a wideband so you can track and adjust your air/fuel more than what just a chip can do. Also if you plan on making pretty big horsepower, I don't think a Walbro pump will be enough. You would either need a double pumper or an external Weldon pump. That's about it! Sounds simple but alcohol is a whole nuther ball game when it comes to tuning.
A couple of threads we've had on e85 in newer cars...
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497893&page=2&pp=40
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487272&page=1&pp=40
Fuel AFRst FARst Equivalence Ratio Lambda
Gasoline stoich 14.7 0.068 1 1
Gasoline Max power rich 12.5 0.08 1.176 0.8503
Gasoline Max power lean 13.23 0.0755 1.111 0.900
E85 stoich 9.765 0.10235 1 1
E85 Max power rich 6.975 0.1434 1.40 0.7143
E85 Max power lean 8.4687 0.118 1.153 0.8673
E100 stoich 9.0078 0.111 1 1
E100 Max power rich 6.429 0.155 1.4 0.714
E100 Max power lean 7.8 0.128 1.15 0.870
The term AFRst refers to the Air Fuel Ratio under stoichiometric, or ideal air fuel ratio mixture conditions. (See stoichiometry.)
FARst refers to the Fuel Air Ratio under stoichiometric conditions, and is simply the reciprocal of AFRst.
Equivalence Ratio is the ratio of actual Fuel Air Ratio to Stoichiometric Fuel Air Ratio; it provides an intuitive way to express richer mixtures.
Lambda is the ratio of actual Air Fuel Ratio to Stoichiometric Air Fuel Ratio; it provides an intuitive way to express leanness conditions (i.e., less fuel, less rich) mixtures of fuel and air.
When you can run a mixture with more fuel and still be around stoich (and BTU/gal are similar) it means you can make more usable power.
This is sometimes referred to as specific energy
As an extreme example. The Specific Energy of nitromethane has at stoichiometric ( heat of combustion divided by air-fuel ratio ) is 6.6, compared to 2.9 for iso-octane (that we talked about above),indicates that the fuel energy delivered to the combustion chamber is 2.3 times that of iso-octane for the same mass of air. Coupled with the higher flame temperature ( 2400C ), and flame speed (0.5 m/s).
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497893&page=2&pp=40
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487272&page=1&pp=40
Fuel AFRst FARst Equivalence Ratio Lambda
Gasoline stoich 14.7 0.068 1 1
Gasoline Max power rich 12.5 0.08 1.176 0.8503
Gasoline Max power lean 13.23 0.0755 1.111 0.900
E85 stoich 9.765 0.10235 1 1
E85 Max power rich 6.975 0.1434 1.40 0.7143
E85 Max power lean 8.4687 0.118 1.153 0.8673
E100 stoich 9.0078 0.111 1 1
E100 Max power rich 6.429 0.155 1.4 0.714
E100 Max power lean 7.8 0.128 1.15 0.870
The term AFRst refers to the Air Fuel Ratio under stoichiometric, or ideal air fuel ratio mixture conditions. (See stoichiometry.)
FARst refers to the Fuel Air Ratio under stoichiometric conditions, and is simply the reciprocal of AFRst.
Equivalence Ratio is the ratio of actual Fuel Air Ratio to Stoichiometric Fuel Air Ratio; it provides an intuitive way to express richer mixtures.
Lambda is the ratio of actual Air Fuel Ratio to Stoichiometric Air Fuel Ratio; it provides an intuitive way to express leanness conditions (i.e., less fuel, less rich) mixtures of fuel and air.
When you can run a mixture with more fuel and still be around stoich (and BTU/gal are similar) it means you can make more usable power.
This is sometimes referred to as specific energy
As an extreme example. The Specific Energy of nitromethane has at stoichiometric ( heat of combustion divided by air-fuel ratio ) is 6.6, compared to 2.9 for iso-octane (that we talked about above),indicates that the fuel energy delivered to the combustion chamber is 2.3 times that of iso-octane for the same mass of air. Coupled with the higher flame temperature ( 2400C ), and flame speed (0.5 m/s).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85
need to read about using this in turbocharged engines and non e85 vehicles.
the e85 wil eat the fuel system that is not made with stainles steel. these systems don't have rubber hoses on it at all.
need to read about using this in turbocharged engines and non e85 vehicles.
the e85 wil eat the fuel system that is not made with stainles steel. these systems don't have rubber hoses on it at all.
i think we need somebody to make an e85 chip for TRs. as for the corrosion ive seen somebody say this before. 1 it needs to come in contact with water first before it becomes corrosive. 2 its not like it will happen overnight, i think it would take a while, i would think you would probally be rebuilding themotor before you would be having corrosion problems and after that it would not be an issue.
loki993 said:
yeah its alcohol, not sulfuric acid
people keep repeating the same thing but I have yet to see any data.
I want to know how long it will take before it eats through a rubber hose or a non stainless line.
Ill bet it takes longer than the engine itself is designed to last.
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
Pablo said:
It must be available near you,why not fill a old plastic fuel container with it 1/2 way and drop samples of rubber fuel line and steel tubing and let it set for a while.Make sure you close the spout and vent to avoid moisture.
TurboBuickSix
Active Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
Wow,I figured Cali would have these stations already seeing they are the smog law kings.
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