Your car NEEDS braces! Best mod ever!

[Adam Connell]

Ok, there are not many things I have ever done to a car that provided "night and day" style results, but I can honestly say that after installing all of the Kirbans braces on my car.

This summer I installed new poly body bushings. This made a huge difference, but honestly it was not the difference I was hoping for. The car still had a slight "boat" feeling to it and still flexed more than I would have liked. Also the ride got "stiff" in a bad way with just the bushings alone.

I am still waiting on my under hood braces to show up, but I have installed the rear seat brace, the triangular braces, and the front connecting brace.

Once I started installing braces, the ride improved dramatically! I had no idea how much the body on this car was moving and how much the frame was flexing! After the bushings, I hated how the car felt... it was "bone jarring" and this is coming from someone who works in the monster truck industry... trust me, It was unpleasant.

Everything changed when I started installing braces though. I started out with the rear seat brace. It REALLY tied the rear end of the car together, Also the ride quality started to improve, and the car started to feel more like what I wanted. My next brace was the triangular front frame braces. HOLY COW! What a difference in ride quality and steering performance!! My next brace that I finally installed yesterday was the front connecting brace that ties the front frame together... I cannot put into words how much this brace improved the front end of the car. This car feels "better" than my room mates 02 Mustang GT with quite a bit of road race style suspension work. It no longer feels like a 3800lb lumbering giant, it feels like I have always wanted my car to feel! Even on drag radials, I have no issues with tossing this car into a turn on my otherwise stock/untouched suspension 118K mile GN(I have replacement shocks).


Now, I know a lot of people bash poly body bushings, I too was unhappy until I installed the proper bracing... Here's why.

Basically my theory is that the body/frame was flexing so much that is was simply not allowing the suspension to work. The car would flex to a point and then bind, and then the suspension would go to work. When the car "binds" it creates that harsh feel. Now that everything is tied together and the chassis is more stable, the suspension is finally allowed to do the job it was supposed to do. The ride is awesome now! I no longer regret the poly bushings, and I am actually considering going to solid aluminum 1/2in drop bushings this summer!!

The difference is alarming, but I can tell you that this is how the cars should have come from the factory. If you dont have the braces, then go buy them NOW, it is urgent and should be your next mod... After installing the braces, I realized that everything I have done to this car to make it more "fun to drive" was worthless without these braces. Im usually not this dramatic, but seriously if you dont have them, then go get them/make them!

 

[supercrackerbox]

For the rear seat brace, did you go with the tubular setup or the stamped GNX style?

 

[toofastforyou]

For the rear seat brace, did you go with the tubular setup or the stamped GNX style?

I have the stamped "GNX-style" brace (got it from Kenne-Bell a very long time ago) and although I raced my car through all these years, my roof pillar NEVER cracked, EVER! I guess they're effective...

Claude. :wink:

 

[davidf]

For the rear seat brace, did you go with the tubular setup or the stamped GNX style?

Kinda wondering that myself. Is the stamped GNX style a bolt in? I recently bought the poly bushings and was sweating bullets on ride quality myself. I almost went with OEM bushings. Guess I need to start ordering braces next week.

 

[turbo nasty]

Kinda wondering that myself. Is the stamped GNX style a bolt in? I recently bought the poly bushings and was sweating bullets on ride quality myself. I almost went with OEM bushings. Guess I need to start ordering braces next week.

Its a bolt or weld in ...your choice.

 

[xtremexnyc]

Do you have a T-Top car? I had all the braces except for the front connecting brace since I had a FMIC on my 86T and it was a night and day difference. Will be doing this to my 86 GN shortly. Agreed that this the way they should have built them from the factory.

 

[supercrackerbox]

I'm slowly collecting all the factory braces for my car. I've got all the front ones for underneath, and the cross bars for the radiator so far. I'll probably get the tubular rear seat ones from Kirban, and there's two more in the trunk that I've only ever seen on Grand Prixs before, but never when I have my drill handy to drill out the spot welds.

(Is that the proper plural form of Grand Prix?)

 

[autodynamics]

can anyone post some pictures on all the braces described ..thanks

 

[supercrackerbox]

Front frame braces

Both sets of underhood braces

I believe Kirban sells most or all of these pieces. Hit his website, I don't want to take photos off it without permission. The Grand Prix trunk ones I mentioned I do not have pics of, but when I find some I will.

 

[davidf]

Front frame braces

Both sets of underhood braces

I believe Kirban sells most or all of these pieces. Hit his website, I don't want to take photos off it without permission. The Grand Prix trunk ones I mentioned I do not have pics of, but when I find some I will.

I cannot find that yellow brace anywhere unless I've overlooked it. Does that particuliar brace clear FMI piping?

 

[Adam Connell]

the yellow brace is actually the the two front braces.

Sorry I have not replied much in this thread yet, been real busy.

 

[berserker6]

ive always been a little skeptical (or ignorant) about the effectiveness of these bolt on braces. ive felt that if they werent being welded in the bolts couldnt really be holding back the flex. am i wrong?

 

[Rok_Stars_Bars]

ive always been a little skeptical (or ignorant) about the effectiveness of these bolt on braces. ive felt that if they werent being welded in the bolts couldnt really be holding back the flex. am i wrong?

I was on the phone with SC&C for a good 30mins today. Taking about everything. Cuz I have every factory brace installed except the Stamp Rear Seat Brace that I will be installing next week. And was wanting his opinion on all these braces and he stated some good facts. The Tubular under hood braces are just too thin. And the pass. Core to Firewall has a bend and he was saying that bend is takes the purpose out of that brace. It seem Im a couple of years to late. But SC&C use to build a weld in under hood brace set-up. And he gave an example: When he put his t-top Monte on a Car lift without any under hood bracing. He could see about 1/2 inch extra gap in the hood. With the Factory under hood bracing (Fender to Core, Core to Firewall) the gap would be alittle better, but still a nice gap. But with his Welding bracing he made, there would be the factory gap.

I mention the rear seat brace. He use the phase they are a Smoking Mirrors. Yeah it might help with flexing in the body. But that doesnt what the frame cuz you have rubber bushing between the frame and the body. Installing a rear frame brace would be more benifical. He said he making a set of rear frame brace but he trail fitted a set on 11 different cars and got 11 different measurments. He would have to put 1/2 inch slits in the bracing and didnt want to do it.

We also talked about the Front Under Car Braces. It pretty much the same with all the other braces they are just to thin. SC&C sells a Under Car bracing. It is 60% thicker. And its built on a jig. In Fact, to install his brace he have to follow a set of instrution that have to be done in a certain order. And if you dont follow them the brace wont line up.

Just figure I would share...

 

[Adam Connell]

Well, in all honesty... Sc&C is just trying to sell you his products haha. They make great stuff for sure though.

I am a performance nut, almost to a fault. Every brace I have added to this car has been 100% worth the time, money, and effort to install them.

Sc&c's stuff may be stronger, but the Kirban's stuff still works very very well and for the money you cant do much better.

I was actually starting to plan a rear frame brace the other day, I think I'll call up Sc&c and see where he was planning on attaching it.

 

[supercrackerbox]

I cannot find that yellow brace anywhere unless I've overlooked it. Does that particuliar brace clear FMI piping?

I found the two from the frame horn to the engine cradle on a Cutlass, and the third one under the radiator support on a Grand Prix. Allegedly, the Grand Prixs got all the available braces, but I haven't seen enough in the junkyards to even guess if that's true or not. I have no idea as to whether they'll clear the intercooler pipes. I don't own a turbo car- well, not from Buick anyway.

 

[supercrackerbox]

These are some diagrams someone posted on another forum, sorry about the "off-brand" car.

There is some debate on the very rear brace between the bumper supports (often a tow hitch is used). Some say it's worth it, some say it's better to leave the car a little "loose" in the back. I honestly don't know either way, I've never raced one of these cars.

ive always been a little skeptical (or ignorant) about the effectiveness of these bolt on braces. ive felt that if they werent being welded in the bolts couldnt really be holding back the flex. am i wrong?

Well the big thing here is (my theory anyway) that it triangulates the front end. Remember that a triangle is the strongest shape in that it can't be bent or distorted. Ever take a bridge building class in high school?

Now granted, the braces here don't form a true triangle since there's two sepatrated mounting points under the engine cradle. But it's gotta be better than nothing. My plan is to shorten the cross bar under the radiator, move it inwards, and weld it to the other two bars like this:

And in addition to that, cut a smallish triangle out of flat steel and weld it between the two towards the point under the engine cradle, forming a true solid triangle. That should make it all a lot stronger than as-installed by the factory, without the extra weight and cost of having aftermarket ones made out of heavier gauge tubing. And FWIW, I paid about $15 for these three pieces at the U-pullit yard. Will it work? I really can't imagine why it wouldn't.

 

[WH1_T-Type]

I was on the phone with SC&C for a good 30mins today. Taking about everything. Cuz I have every factory brace installed except the Stamp Rear Seat Brace that I will be installing next week. And was wanting his opinion on all these braces and he stated some good facts. The Tubular under hood braces are just too thin. And the pass. Core to Firewall has a bend and he was saying that bend is takes the purpose out of that brace. It seem Im a couple of years to late. But SC&C use to build a weld in under hood brace set-up. And he gave an example: When he put his t-top Monte on a Car lift without any under hood bracing. He could see about 1/2 inch extra gap in the hood. With the Factory under hood bracing (Fender to Core, Core to Firewall) the gap would be alittle better, but still a nice gap. But with his Welding bracing he made, there would be the factory gap.

I mention the rear seat brace. He use the phase they are a Smoking Mirrors. Yeah it might help with flexing in the body. But that doesnt what the frame cuz you have rubber bushing between the frame and the body. Installing a rear frame brace would be more benifical. He said he making a set of rear frame brace but he trail fitted a set on 11 different cars and got 11 different measurments. He would have to put 1/2 inch slits in the bracing and didnt want to do it.

We also talked about the Front Under Car Braces. It pretty much the same with all the other braces they are just to thin. SC&C sells a Under Car bracing. It is 60% thicker. And its built on a jig. In Fact, to install his brace he have to follow a set of instrution that have to be done in a certain order. And if you dont follow them the brace wont line up.

Just figure I would share...

So you spoke to a company A about a company B product and were told that that company B product wouldn't work, BUT WAIT!!! The product made by company A (the same people you are talking to....) DOES work?

This doesn't really surprise you, does it? You know they are in business to make money, right?

Now, I'm not trying to say they lied to you, because I simply do not know. I'm not an expert in these things by any means. But you do have to take the possiblity that they may have been.....bending...the truth to sell a product.

 

[coach]

Kinda wondering that myself. Is the stamped GNX style a bolt in? I recently bought the poly bushings and was sweating bullets on ride quality myself. I almost went with OEM bushings. Guess I need to start ordering braces next week.

I had my GNX tig welded in. It has made the single biggest improvement yet. I can put a jack on the frame behind the driver side front tire and about 3 pumps, 3 wheels are off the ground. Before the brace, you could almost run the jack out of travel before that started. GNX brace, welded in, is the way to go.

Dont forget to add the GNX rear bushings too. You have to seperate your frame and body, but just loosen up your bodymounts enough to jack up body on both sides at the same time and POP them in. They really help. If you need to, cut off the locating nipple on top, it doesnt always line up. Kirbans sells just these 2 bushing alone.

Coach

 

[LSJM1]

I've seen a few 81-87 grand prixs that don't have the cross brace most 81-87 cutlass have the angled front cradle bars never seen all 3 together on any of them It does make a big difference having all 3

 

[Rok_Stars_Bars]

Well, The only thing that really he was selling me was the Front under car brace. But since I have actually installed the GP brace with the jounce brace I see the weakness. He doesnt make a Under hood brace no more and never made a rear frame brace just tested. And I have yet to buy ANYTHING from Kirban's. WHY? would I have to. The local yard has everything. My Fender to Core brace is off a 84 Bonneville, the Core to Firewall brace is off a 78 malibu, Front frame brace 80's Grand Prix, my cutlass came with jounce braces, I got my Stamped seat brace off a Grand Prix, and my X-radiator brace off a 84 regal. So I have around 50 bucks for all my braces. The only brace I havnt installed is the Rear Seat Brace. I will do that next week. Since this thread has really motivated me too. And see results.