Will a distributor fit with stock setup?

[norbs]

We need someone like ta performance or RJC to remake a drop in distributor!

 

[JC Turbo]

A friend was considering switching to a distributor since some of the fast cars have them. I was wondering if you switch to a distributor where would you get the signal and injector timing from since the cam sensor controls this? Could you then use something on the crank since you would no longer need a crank signal with a distributor? I would imagine it might be easier with a DFI of some sort.

 

[EightSecV6]

A friend was considering switching to a distributor since some of the fast cars have them. I was wondering if you switch to a distributor where would you get the signal and injector timing from since the cam sensor controls this? Could you then use something on the crank since you would no longer need a crank signal with a distributor? I would imagine it might be easier with a DFI of some sort.

On a Bank to Bank unit, (ipu type) you dont need a cam signal, it will set injector timing from the crank trigger as well as spark timing (the distributor just distributes), on a sequential unit, the magnetic pickup in the distributor is used for cam sync and individual cyl control. I know some people are using the STOCK crank trigger and using a distributor, I prefer the MSD flying magnet, it is far more accurate than the stamped steel interruptor ring and has infinate adjustability for setting the crank reference.

 

[86brick]

its up to you but the fastest stock block cars have a distributor.

Jezz Roy and Laz are like Rodney Dangerfield they get no respect! :biggrin: Those guys have been 9.30's @146+mph without a dist. Just figured I'd further stir the pot on this topic :wink:

 

[EightSecV6]

Jezz Roy and Laz are like Rodney Dangerfield they get no respect! :biggrin: Those guys have been 9.30's @146+mph without a dist. Just figured I'd further stir the pot on this topic :wink:

They would go .20's then! I had to borrow a "Cuban cam sensor" in BG from them las tyear.......maybe that is the secret.
I ran 8.20's at 3400# about 7 years ago with the stock ignition but it would go through coil packs rather quickly. Come to think of it, I think Roy and Laz have that engine!

 

[86brick]

They would go .20's then! I had to borrow a "Cuban cam sensor" in BG from them las tyear.......maybe that is the secret.
I ran 8.20's at 3400# about 7 years ago with the stock ignition but it would go through coil packs rather quickly. Come to think of it, I think Roy and Laz have that engine!

I need to get one of these Cubano cam sensors from them... Could put my 49 turbo bolt-on car in the 10's.. LOL I have heard thru the grape vine that they will eventually put your old engine to good use although I think it will be hard for them to give up on the venerable 109 combination...

 

[turbobuick]

They would go .20's then! I had to borrow a "Cuban cam sensor" in BG from them las tyear.......maybe that is the secret.
I ran 8.20's at 3400# about 7 years ago with the stock ignition but it would go through coil packs rather quickly. Come to think of it, I think Roy and Laz have that engine!

That's were I'm at now with frying coil packs, one every 10 hard passes or so then the car develops a hard miss under boost. I don't even run the POS MSD box either just a stock ignition module and coil pack. That doesn't mean it is the right or best thing to do though. Personally I don't think you need to switch until you are running mid 9's or better.

Norbs, I've been putting off switching to a distributor to see what kind of ignition box DFI is going to release. Thier new box is rumored to have some really neat features and I was considering an individual coil setup.

 

[bruce]

The fastest cars PERIOD! I honestly cant believe it has taken this long for the whole thing to catch on. The dis4 MSD and stock ignition cant hold a candle (literally) to a 7al2 with an MSD crank trigger and MSD distributor.

The comparison, isn't fair, IMO.
You're talking about a system that's questionable at best (the dis4), and comparing it to a 7AL.

A more fair comparison, would be (at least in theory) runnin a series of 7AL on a set of coils that could handle them. But, according to some the stock DIS coils start to fail under some HP applications. Wish would mean using something like the new MSD CNPs.


As far as the stock coils starting to fail, the only thing that pops into my mind, is either mounting, or high secondary firing voltages. If not properly mounted so as to min vibration that mibht be one answer. If it's the high firing voltage, then maybe the tune needs looked at, or the coils just run out of enough HV considerations in their design.

Maybe someone really needs to look at a well designed CNP. MSD lists having some new coilds for the CNP guys. Maybe it's time for a CD/CNP hybreed system. A dissy is always going to waste alot of spark energy, and have the potential for cap/ rotor failures.

 

[EightSecV6]

The comparison, isn't fair, IMO.

Not making a comparison, just stating FACTS from experience, I am not an electrical engineer, I build race cars.

A series of 7al2 boxes would cost a small fortune, it would be ugly AND weigh too much IMO.
I think the demand on the stock coils (rpm and load) is what caused the problem in my case.

 

[bruce]

Not making a comparison, just stating FACTS from experience, I am not an electrical engineer, I build race cars.

A series of 7al2 boxes would cost a small fortune, it would be ugly AND weigh too much IMO.
I think the demand on the stock coils (rpm and load) is what caused the problem in my case.

OK, it just looked like you compared the two....

** The dis4 MSD and stock ignition cant hold a candle (literally) to a 7al2 with an MSD crank trigger and MSD distributor.**

 

[EightSecV6]

OK, it just looked like you compared the two....

** The dis4 MSD and stock ignition cant hold a candle (literally) to a 7al2 with an MSD crank trigger and MSD distributor.**

That is a fact, is it not? Maybe its an opinion, another opinion of mine is that the DIS4 is a piece of crap as well as the Digital 6.
There is alot more to it than just the FIRE part Bruce, for example, you can accurately change the crank reference as well as the cam sync.

 

[John Wilde]

That is a fact, is it not? Maybe its an opinion, another opinion of mine is that the DIS4 is a piece of crap as well as the Digital 6.
There is alot more to it than just the FIRE part Bruce, for example, you can accurately change the crank reference as well as the cam sync.

Bill,

Did you get my PM?

 

[EightSecV6]

Bill,

Did you get my PM?

nope

 

[norbs]

I just can;t find those pics, and I have tried to get a hold of Gomez and i can't. I am not even going to try an attempt to install this looks like.....

 

[John Wilde]

nope

The one in regards to Hurricane preperation???
Steve sent one also.

 

[bruce]

That is a fact, is it not? Maybe its an opinion, another opinion of mine is that the DIS4 is a piece of crap as well as the Digital 6.
There is alot more to it than just the FIRE part Bruce, for example, you can accurately change the crank reference as well as the cam sync.

Opinions are fine, and are also opinions.
While I've not heard of anything particulary grand about the DIS4/6, your original comment was about a 7, and the stock setup. And, my comment about comparing a stock setup to a 7, still stands, as not being a fair comparison. If you want to compare a dissy Dist setup, then it should be compared to a good DIS CDI, and like you said the 4/6, doesn't fit the bill.

Why would you need to change the Crank Reference, on a TR?.
Which distributor allows you to change the cam sync independently of the reference pulse?.

You can bypass the EST min engine speed, and set the initial timing to any *degree* as low as the 10d offset of the stock setup, and if you want you can reinstall the stock shutter to 0d if ya want, with the stock set-up.

 

[EightSecV6]

Opinions are fine, and are also opinions.
While I've not heard of anything particulary grand about the DIS4/6, your original comment was about a 7, and the stock setup. And, my comment about comparing a stock setup to a 7, still stands, as not being a fair comparison. If you want to compare a dissy Dist setup, then it should be compared to a good DIS CDI, and like you said the 4/6, doesn't fit the bill.

MY OPINION is The 7al2 along with my MSD crank trigger and MSD distributor makes on paper approximately 1575 flywheel horsepower with only one measly turbo (2570# at 188).Not in theory, but fact. Compare that to ANYONE else's (dist. or dis). When someone else cranks out more power with a DIS, my opinion will change, until that point the distributor makes more power.........for argument sake

Why would you need to change the Crank Reference, on a TR?.
Which distributor allows you to change the cam sync independently of the reference pulse?.

Crank reference is "adjusted" in my case for various tuning parameters.
ANY MSD distributor can be adjusted (after removing the mechanical advance) to operate the cam sync independently of the reference pulse.

You can bypass the EST min engine speed, and set the initial timing to any *degree* as low as the 10d offset of the stock setup, and if you want you can reinstall the stock shutter to 0d if ya want, with the stock set-up.

Sounds a little confusing and complicated to me Bruce but that is not hard to do! :biggrin:

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Any chance someone's going to eventually put together a kit for us slower guys to buy?
Ball park figure $$??

Since coil packs and modules are going up in price big time and more and more GN's pull the AC, this sounds promising.

EightSecV6, guesstimate a HP gain by swaping dis's on a mid to high 10 car?

 

[EightSecV6]

Any chance someone's going to eventually put together a kit for us slower guys to buy?
Ball park figure $$??

Since coil packs and modules are going up in price big time and more and more GN's pull the AC, this sounds promising.

EightSecV6, guesstimate a HP gain by swaping dis's on a mid to high 10 car?

I would guesstimate no gain on a car running in that range BUT you get the advantage of reliable electronics

 

[Razor]

Norbs, I saw the engine. The cap used was black in color not the typical red MSD. And the distributor appeared to be really low on the cover. With that said, the tensioner bracket had a nice bit of sectioning to accomplish the space. Alt and AC were in the factory locations.

I beleive Cal on his ground all the interupter tabs inside the distributor except one.. to use for the cam sync.

How bout doing coil on plugs like the Chrysler 300 coils. A lot of DSM guys are going this route. Or the LS1 coils? I know Bruce is higher up on this.