thinking about buying DFI
- Thread starter 1000MileStylez
- Start date
The Gen7 is much better system than the FAST. I have owned, raced and tuned both units. I sold my FAST unit. Gen7 software works as advertised with no bull crap. Upgrades are FREE downloads. You have all the info you need about the function etc just hit the F1 ket from any screen info is right in to the software. The 2 step and boost builder are awsome. You get SFI for the price of a FAST bank to bank You still retain the use of the knock sensor with SFI. When it comes time to change the WBo2 you can buy your sensor from autozone and plug it in. No need to pay inflated price from a fast dealer. No software or other crap like the FAST when buying the WB02. The new upgrade software will allow the use of any of the WB02 including the $90 NGK sensor. If you compare the bang for the buck the FAST is not even close.
The the datalogging and trace function in the Gen7 absolutely sucks, and if you don't think so then you never have actually used either to tune with. The Innovate meters are shipped with a Bosch wide band O2, so I am not sure of the $90 for the NTK sensor. Actually I just checked their site and they only list the Bosch for $59.
steve hughes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2002
I didn't know they made an LS1 specific gen7 . Mine lists about every type of ignition system known to man. I don't understand the comment about the trace or dataloging. I have no problem with mine.
Compared to the way a FAST system does it just plain sucks. You obviously haven't tuned much with a FAST system. DFI does have a LS1 specific box now, don't know how well it works have yet to see one. The Gen7 does have a lot of good features some better than the FAST, people say, but not the datalogging.
1000MileStylez
Black Sheep
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2003
thanks to berrel auto, for actually taking the time to answer the questions i orgionally created this post about, have fun with the debate guys
P.S. i called white racing, they seemed like a bunch of hacks, they knew nothing about the product they sell??? or maybe just the person i talked to. glad i spoke to someone who seems confident in what he believes in
P.S. i called white racing, they seemed like a bunch of hacks, they knew nothing about the product they sell??? or maybe just the person i talked to. glad i spoke to someone who seems confident in what he believes in
O.K. We got 1 complaint of bad datalogging VS. the Fast Datalogging. What is the difference? What is the boost builder? I would be able to plug back in my knock sensor if I wanted to, I can buy a $90.00 sensor from Autozone and it will work without a "install disk"?
Lonnie, help me out here. This seems like something to consider. By the way, is there individual cylinder correction on the SFI Gen 7 standard?
Not sure what you mean by sucks. The dataloging will data log selected inputs for as long as you want same as FAST. You can not select as many inputs at one time but other than that not sure what you are saying. You are correct the Innovative is the Bosch sensor and there is a NGK. My mistake. Bottom line $90 or $59 not $350 and you need no additional software. I did not do a lot of tuning with the FAST simply because I did not have that much time to spend on the phone tring to figure out why the POS would not work properly. I finally traded it to Reggie West and offered to buy it back from him at some point because I did feel bad that it took him months to figure out what the heck was wrong with it. He went threw the same crap I did sending it back several times to be told it was working properly. Each time it cost me money. I bought my gen7 made no phone calls an now tuning it with no help and no gremlins that the FAST units seem to have. Either system will get you where you want to go. The gen7 just has more to offer and seems to require much less help. Yes they do have a LS1 plug and play specific system that does not require the use of the factory ECU other than to operate the dash. The dash wiring you will need to wire your self. No I have not personally installed or used one for the LS1 but the tuning will be the same. Barrelauto did make a good point. There are other options to consider. The problem I have with the FAST is they do not have as many as the Gen7. Good information is only good if you have all of it to consider.
The gen7 is standard with cylinder correction, fuel timing per cyl, injection timing and the list goes on. The new software will allow the use of the Bosh sensor and yes you can buy the NGK at autozone that will plug into your Gen7 brick with no software. You will need to buy the WBo2 option if you want to use the NGK as the calibration brick is required. If I were buying today I would wait till the new release (free) and use the bosch sensor. Its my understanding the brick will not be required with the Bosch sensor I would wait for the release and see. Yes knock sensor can be used and timing retard can be turned off and viewed only or limited to max amount of retard or you can choose to allow the knock sensor to retard up to 25 deg. The choice is yours. Check the FAST SFI unit and see what they will let you do with a knock sensor. Boost Builder is used with the 2 step to retard timing and drop fuel into the header to drive the turbo. Its fast and it works. Great for a race car useless for a car that never goes to the track.
If you couldn't get a FAST to work on a turbo Buick then you had some serious problems elsewhere or you had no idea what you were doing, no offense. I know of many, many FAST units on turbo Buicks on everything from strictly street cars to all out race cars and everything in between and none, I will say it again NONE, have any problems. I know of a bunch of Gen7's on all kinds of cars with problems, problems no one even DFI themselves can fix. Back to the datalogging. The Gen7 looks like somebody drew the lines with a crayon and they are far from smooth. I have seen kindergarten artwork that is more readable. You might prefer the Gen7 over the FAST which is fine everybody is entitled to an opinion, but you come on here and completely trash the FAST system after one bad expierence. That isn't fair to the people on here trying to make an educated decision. You have never mentioned what your problems were with the FAST and if you have refresh our memories, I am curious to know. I would rather have information from someone who sells and tunes both systems.
I am not going to humor you or anyone else with anymore exchanges. I will answer your question. The WBo2 was my problem with the FAST. It would work sometimes and other times would not. After several trips to Fast and purchasing the 2nd O2 I gave up and sold the unit. If it was all me and not the unit wonder why the next owner had same issues? I am Glad its gone and will never consider purchasing another. Why is it that people who have never owned a Gen7 have opinions on how bad they are?
If that was directed at me you are kind of right. I have never personally owned a Gen7 but have installed a couple and tuned a bunch of them and that is where my opinion comes from. Thank god I didn't spend my hard earned money on one to only be disappointed. I wish I would have known about your FAST problems because I know of someone who would have traded you a brand new Gen7 for it. I did own a Gen6 DFI and that worked fine back when that was the only game in town. It could only do so much and you didn't ask anymore of it. If the Gen7 came out when it was suppose to maybe I would have had one in my car but it didn't and so I bought a FAST. I have never expierenced any problems with the FAST so there is no reason to change and I am happy with my purchase. Honestly yours is the first problem I have heard to be with the WBO2. All problems I have seen in the WBO2 area have been in the wiring, not connected properly, terminals pulling out, etc. I have tuned almost every system out there, Accel DFI Gen6 & 7, FAST, Holley, Electromotive, Motec, Haltech, and even BigStuff3 and can give you an honest opinion any on them. So biased I am not.
berrelauto
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2003
quickt, after reading the above posts and having installed plenty of FAST units on turbo Buicks, I am assuming that you were using an adapter harness of some kind. Did you include it when you sold to the other guy? Did anyone ever bother check to see if the harness was wired correctly? I have seen problems with everybodies adapter harnesses on all applications, wires in the wrong places, wires being omitted, etc. Remember they are made by humans. I have sold many of FAST units and have never had a problem with WBO2 that wasn't directly related to a wiring issue.
The other wide band sensor that quickt was talking about is the NTK, not NGK. NGK sells spark plugs. You can get them off of the PLX Devices website for $190. Or from me for the same price.
Please let me know where I can get this sensor for $90. It must be the NTK L1H1/L2H2, preferrably the latter.
Bruce, from what I have been told, the L2H2 will replace the L1H1 directly, no problem. That is from the Bosch tech support.
I originally called them because there is another sensor LSM (or close) that MANY websites are telling people is a wide band sensor. This is simply NOT true. It is a 0-1 volt unit for use in industrial applications. That is directly from the Bosch o2 sensor Tech.
Please let me know where I can get this sensor for $90. It must be the NTK L1H1/L2H2, preferrably the latter.
Bruce, from what I have been told, the L2H2 will replace the L1H1 directly, no problem. That is from the Bosch tech support.
I originally called them because there is another sensor LSM (or close) that MANY websites are telling people is a wide band sensor. This is simply NOT true. It is a 0-1 volt unit for use in industrial applications. That is directly from the Bosch o2 sensor Tech.
I did send harness back with ECU. I am not sure what Reggie came up with but I think it was the WB02 software was not calibrated properly. Either way it was finally fixed while he owned the unit. I know they told me that when I owned it. The unit would work good for about a month then go wacky again. I really dont know what the issue was. All I can say is the FAST is gone and so are my problems.
I can not imagine anyone having problems tuning a Gen7. But I also said that with a Gen6 that many could not seem to get the hang of. The WB02 sensor I am reffering to is I thought an NGK maybe not. I was told by Accell that it could be purchased for around $90. I do not have a part number. You could call them maybe they will tell you.
Jr Tuner: I could probally scratch up another FAST from a local if your guy has all the Gen7 stuff including Wideband to trade. He is wanting to switch. E-mail me privately and we can make that happen.
send to my e-mail quickv6@aol.com
Norbs that is not a correct. I can get you everything you need for $1995 plus $450 for the jumper harness. What does the FAST SFI cost these days?
