No start condition - very few tools to help out

[Hot Air Beast]

So here we are in Florida with very few tools and I just bumped into a no start condition. After the WOT bogging down situation solved with a used coil pac/ignition module and the car was running better than ever for about a month, last night I go start it and no go.

There is fuel at the fuel rail but I have no pressure gauge available so I don't know what pressure (car was in a shop in Naples 6 weeks ago and both FP (43 psi) and flow were good). I tested spark in two plug wires/plugs and there is consistent spark in both.

I am going to use a circuit tester in a few minutes to check out fuses. Going to start with ECM and C3I ones.

Any other suggestions ?

Good thing I don't get discouraged easily huh!

 

[ScottHeidinger]

You can buy a cheap fuel pressure gauge at auto parts store to verify fuel pressure.


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[Hot Air Beast]

Yup I plan on adding that my florida tools cache.

 

[Hot Air Beast]

OK - physically checked all fuses - then checked continuity across all fuses - ( to check instruments fuse turn headlights on) - all good. Going to swap ECMs now.

 

[ScottHeidinger]

SES light when u turn key on?


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[Hot Air Beast]

Just swapped out the ECM for another used one and it started - not right away but it started as I kept cranking it. Warm up for 2 - 3 minutes. Turned off. Turned on and it started right away. Even a touch better idle. Go figure!!!

 

[gn dennis]

Just swapped out the ECM for another used one and it started - not right away but it started as I kept cranking it. Warm up for 2 - 3 minutes. Turned off. Turned on and it started right away. Even a touch better idle. Go figure!!!

WOW i'm Naples, I also own a Buick turbo T 1987 I just cant seem get the car down here. What shop did you use to have your work done? Good luck enjoy. Dennis

 

[Hot Air Beast]

This was in my driveway shop. It is really hard to find a good knoweldgeable technician - espescially for a hot air car, so I try to do the best I can by myself before looking for a good shop. There is a really good one up in Englewood about two hours from downtown Naples.

 

[salvageV6]

I would bet more on a bad +12 or ground to the ECM harness rather than the hardware suddenly going bad.

Or perhaps pins for the chip in the ECM itself.

Usually when installing a new one the wiring can get moved enough to work again, so be on the lookout for that if the problem comes up again.

Just my .02.

 

[ScottHeidinger]

I would bet more on a bad +12 or ground to the ECM harness rather than the hardware suddenly going bad.

Or perhaps pins for the chip in the ECM itself.

Usually when installing a new one the wiring can get moved enough to work again, so be on the lookout for that if the problem comes up again.

Just my .02.

X2 that’s why I asked you to look for corrosion at the connector for the ECM.


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[gn dennis]

This was in my driveway shop. It is really hard to find a good knoweldgeable technician - espescially for a hot air car, so I try to do the best I can by myself before looking for a good shop. There is a really good one up in Englewood about two hours from downtown Naples.

Do you bring your car every year? or leave it down in Florida?

 

[Hot Air Beast]

I agree, it's too convenient to blame it on ECM hardware. I have inspected the connectors at the ECM and there doesn't appear to be any corrosion. Got my fingers crossed for the 1600 mile drive home.

Yes I drive it down to Florida and back every winter (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada - 1600 miles).

Also, two of my spare ECMs are "re-manufactured" by GM - anyone know if ECM can be verified/re-manufactured anywhere today???

 

[ScottHeidinger]

Did you try swapping the old ECM back in to see if it would run with it? Ive never owned or worked on a Hot air but I assume the chips in the ECM are like the 86-89 so maybe one of the pins on the chip isn’t making a good connection. Might try swapping the chips to verify if the issue is the ECM or chip/connection issue. I’m glad you got it running, just don’t want you to end up stuck somewhere on that long trip. Thanks again for your help with the parts I need for my project. I don’t know what’s involved but I know some of the Hot air guys switch over to the 86/87 ECM. I don’t think it’s a straight plug and play but I don’t think it’s too complicated. If you want to go that route let me know and I will give you a 86/87 ECM for the same price as the power steering pump you sold me.


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[ScottHeidinger]

84 to 86/87 ECM

I want to convert my 84 system to the 86/87 ECM unit. I used the search and alot of results came up but it's still confusing to me for some reason. Basically I just want someone to explain to me what I need to upgrade to the 86/87 ECM. So far I understood that I need to get a translator, 86/87...

turbobuick.com

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[Hot Air Beast]

I had considered that Scott, BUT, I have spent 31 years that I have owned this car, trying to keep it as stock as I can - so I will live with these situations. Looks like I have finally found a good technician in Englewood, about 1 1/2 hours away from me. I may start to use the car train to minimize the risks of a long drive. Thanks for being there man.

I am traveling with the spare ECMs so chip pins/ecm pins - I've got it covered. Strange how it just happened one night when I went to start it after sitting for a couple of days.

 

[salvageV6]

If you have the service manual for the Hot Air you own I would have a looksee at what connectors come from the IGN switch between it and the ECM, same with the ECM's ground points through connectors.

You can easily have an intermittent connection there took me 2 years to find mine on my daily driver, never set a code either the car would just die and reset my chip to anti-theft mode so I knew it was a loss of power somewhere and it wasn't the memory lead.

Found it by going inside the glove box area (after removing it completely) and wiggling the wires until it died.

 

[salvageV6]

Here is one thread on the C437 connector where the IGN power goes through to get to the ECM, I think the hot air cars have it also but the pinout may be different.

ECM Harness ?

Anyone know how far up or where there are factory splice points near the ecm plugs? I dont have the manual handy to give the splice numbers but I think theres ground and power ones wrapped up near the ecm? I dont believe its an ecm pin issue but in the harness. TIA. :)

turbobuick.com

Search feature has a lot more on that connector and what goes through it.

Hats off to driving to FL every year from Canada land.

 

[channer]

Hi

did you get your car started?

I had a bad starter. out of the blue one day... car wouldn't start. No clicking sound, no power draw, lights were bright. everything worked except for the car starting. I took a hammer to the starter... and the car starter. drove it for a day, next day... no start again. I replaced the starter... and put the car away for the winter.