Need help with FAST.

[melvin]

My English is BAD.. but I´ll try anyway.

I have starting to tune in FAST from the very beginning after a lot of problems with my car.
The car is TTA, #95inj and the usual stuff.

I have heard from a friend that I shoould put a lower value for the injectors, I have 95 but the value in FAST is 86.
I don´t have a good explanation why it "should" be like that, but he said that´s a fact.. or something.
The rest of the set up is probably not perfect in any way either.

We have manged to get the car running, but not with any boost to talk about so far. The biggest problem for the moment is to get the car to run fine from idle to low speeds.
Like driving carefully in city traffic.. it seems to go way to lean then. But when I push harder on the gas pedal there is no problem with that.

If somebody here is good at this, please see my log and gct file on this web address:

http://kiruna.d2g.com/fast_files/

Thanks.
Daniel

 

[norbs]

Your program had many BAD things in there. I would set the injectors to 96. Try this program it will get you a bit closer than what you had. I am guess ing the ve numbers so you will have to adjust accordingly. Make sure the fuel pressure is 43 lbs before you start. do some more logs and post them. Good luck this is set for 93 octane gasoline


unzip the file first

 

[melvin]

Thanks a lot!!
All help I can get is really appreciated!

I will test this program tomorrow.

What was the bad things you found in there? What changes did you do?
I´m a newbie at this so I don´t feel stupid to ask. :wink:


The "funny" thing is that I had a similar set up like this, less voltage to the pump (about 10.5 volt at 20PSI) and a fuel pressure set at 32 PSI on idle with the hose off from the regulator.
With this set up.. and both headgaskets blown the car did three 11sec runs in a row, with foot off the gas pedal before the finish line.

Now the voltage problems is fixed and I have the fuel pressure; 43,5 PSI@idle.

 

[norbs]

The file didn't get uploaded try again. basically i changed everything

 

[ChrisChow]

when you begin to tune

Wow, I looked at the file. You need some changes for sure. For future testing under power....

On the VE table at 7500 RPMs all your VE cells are WRONG.
Also at 314 kpa your VE numbers are also too low if not all wrong.
I would recommend re-tuning the VE table with a working wide band sensor.
In contrast your timing table looks pretty good.

On your wide band table, the very top row at 315kpa is too lean. I set mine to 11.0 to 11.3 especially at peak torque.

Also, I don't like having huge correction limits for my Buicks. I like to develop the VE table from many WOT runs while monitoring the wide band readings. My correction factors in row 6 and above is only + or - 3% and as little at 1-2%.

I just took a peak at NORBs file and it's WAY better. I hope he isn't charging you too much

 

[melvin]

Now I have test drived the program norbs posted. The car starts up easier and stay on idle, that is good.
But the idle is going up from 800-1100 every now and then. It has not done that before. We tried to make changes in the idle function tables but we did not get it any better.
The car does not "die" when I take off gently from idle, that is good too

We did some test runs, it did not go to lean what we could see?

-->ChrisChow.
Thanks for your tips! But the table at 7500 RPM is nothing I have bother to change, I don´t go that high on the rpm scale.

Please see my logs again on this adress:

http://kiruna.d2g.com/fast_files/

 

[norbs]

Looks like the program still needs some work. I need you log the same sensors each time, not different ones. You may have to adjust your screw on the throttle body to get the idle lower. You may have to lower the throttle follower if its too high, still. I need to know the iac postion. in gear and in park.

PLease log the following sensors for your datalogging.

rpm, kpa, o2 correction, iac postion, actual air fuel ratio, tps, pw, coolant temp, VE, timing, knock.

To help you tune it in I want you to make sure its in closed loop and with the engine hot. I want you to rev the engine slowly from idle to 3000 rpm and press the space bar and L key one after another, as the box moves. You will see the ve number change. DO this for the different rpms points. Once this is done do it again in gear. THis will help you get it closer than you are now.

I have modified the program a bit put it in your files

 

[melvin]

I did not even know that we were logging different sensors, sorry for that.
I will try to fix everything like you describe it tomorrow.

The car runs MUCH better now, that is for sure. But the only thing that got worse was the idle when the engine is warm.
With the old program the idle was good, before I though the gas pedal. Now (like you see in the logs) it goes up and down a little.

I put in your new file tomorrow and go from there.

I'm really thankful for all this help here!

 

[norbs]

It looks like its running rich @idle warm. It should be able to idle @13.5 a/f? WHat parts are in this car exactly?

 

[melvin]

I want you to rev the engine slowly from idle to 3000 rpm and press the space bar and L key one after another, as the box moves. You will see the ve number change. DO this for the different rpms points. Once this is done do it again in gear.

Already one question here. I'm sitting at my night job here so I don´t have a computer with FAST installed.
What will happend when I press Space bar and L key? (yes the number will change - I see that) But is this some kind on "auto tune" function or something..?

 

[melvin]

It looks like its running rich @idle warm. It should be able to idle @13.5 a/f? WHat parts are in this car exactly?

I guess it was stupid to write "the usual stuff" in my first post here.
There is not much stock parts in this car, most of them will not affect the idle but I think the; Champion heads/port mached intake, The large Kenne Bell throttle body, the 95inj and what I think is a 212/212 roller cam, can make the idle harder to adjust?
The larger turbo, IC and so, is nothing that would affect the car on idle I guess..?

Yes, it runs rich on idle. We tried to lower the numbers there, that was no problem untill we were out on the road and lift the foot off the gas - then the car died and did not want to idle untill we were standing still and started it up again.

I can post a more specific list on the parts in this car here tomorrow morning, when I get back home.

 

[norbs]

Yes its auto tune? If you click on the help section in the software everything is explained about it. It auto tunes, but only in the cell that is working, and it sets the ve table to the correct amount that is needed for your programmed a/f ratio table. IT should only be used for steady speeds, not while accelerating! Or it will not be accurate

 

[melvin]

Yes its auto tune? If you click on the help section in the software everything is explained about it. It auto tunes, but only in the cell that is working, and it sets the ve table to the correct amount that is needed for your programmed a/f ratio table. IT should only be used for steady speeds, not while accelerating! Or it will not be accurate

Is this function described in the manual as well? We are reading that while we are trying things. Newbies.. as I said before.
I can´t remeber I have read anything about that before.

Thanks again! :wink:

 

[norbs]

What software version are you using?it is listed in the help menu, where its says "about"

 

[melvin]

Not sure on which version I got, will check that as well tomorrow.

 

[melvin]

I got version 1.005

 

[melvin]

I dont´t think there is a "auto tune" function in my version of FAST. (?)

New logs at the same address as before.
http://kiruna.d2g.com/fast_files/

The car runs good, the idle is not perfect and the correction is not good either. But in regular "city traffic" it runs great, better than ever actually. It also starts up fine without the need of pumping on the gas pedal.

The logs called boost1 & 2 is without any alky. From 3 and up I got the alky injection on.
I got knocks already on the second boost level. Don´t know how much is visible on the log file but I am sure that I heard it just before I let off the gas.
I dont know if there is possible to do something with logs that i used alky. The values is messed up I guess..?
But I wanted to try anyway to turn up the boost a little because there is a "just for fun" 1/8 race here tomorrow that would be fun to enter.

Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[norbs]

I see the knock, you must have some poor octane fuel up your way. i have reduced the timing a bit. Try it again, and i reduced the iac paramters, might help the surging a bit. Its idling rougher since its leaner, it better than idling rich and fouling the motor up. If it stalls increase the idle gains a bit. I little bit of tweaking of the fuel map too. Stay away from the alky for now until you get this knock sorted out. What fuel are you putting in this? Your new prog is added in the zip. Keep trying. You need the windows update to 1.020 get the l key or go back to dos version.

 

[melvin]

I use 93 octane gas.

Do you think I have enough voltage to run much higher boost than I do in theese logs? The fuel pump seems to consume a lot of power, the voltage drop downs to just under 12,5 from over 13 if I remember it right, when the PSI goes up.

Is it just stupid to go "racing" tomorrow? And if I do that, is it safer to use the alky? I´m not going to turn up the boost, just burn some rubber for the public I guess.
But it´s not worth it if there is a big risk of blowing a HG or something again, because it is coming up some real 1/4 races later this autum.

Do you know where I can find this Update for FAST? On their homepage I only find the demo version 1.003

Thanks again!


More logs are coming up.. tuning a Swedish car from Canada is pretty cool.

 

[norbs]

I think you will be alright as long as you lift if you hear knock, and at those boost levels its not that instant to blow a gasket. If you run 27 psi and have knock then thats not that good. It looks like you have a big injector and you definitely need to look at the fuel system and make sure its 100%, before we continune. Can you give us a list of whats exactly on the car in parts wise?