I Need 1 set of injectors for all 3 -E85, 110/116 and 93/Alky. which Size to get??

[TURBOPOWERED68]

My plans are
1-To run 110 or better octane with a small touch of alky at the track.
2-Use 93 and Alky for my road trips
3-Use E85 on the days i want to play locally.

So basically i WANT (may not NEED) The biggest injectors that my car can handle and maintain a decent idle and drive-ability / handle my DD needs ON 93 octane?

The conventional combination of 93 octane and Alky will be my primary fuels unless i fall in love with the E85.
Talk to me.
David

 

[jasjamz]

120's and a Turbo Tweak SD chip for E-85. It has a parameter that will allow you to lower fuel though the entire tune. In my honest opinion you're wasting your time mixing all those fuels. 93/ alky for road trips, E-85 the rest of the time. Pumps and likes better be in order to complete the setup.

 

[87chrisss]

To be honest E85 is good, but for a daily driver you will end up spending more at the pump than 93 premium. And unless you like the smell of e85 it will be stink e85 has its 'odor' of cooking burning french fries always! no matter if you drive slow or fast it reeks out of the motor thats just the truth But its clean & green. Ive run e85 on all type of car's for a few years, and it is stinky. The smell is always there even with car turned off, But i think you should stick to one fuel and perfect your combo. But if you insist on trying your method i think you should be good with something in the 80- 96# injector range. 120's are good but mostly for e85 120s on pump gas is alot of injector to be driving around daily with. Would be nice to have best off all worlds but your asking for a bit much you will drawbacks and never have consistency in your fuel since it will be mixed most of the thime unless you pump all your fuel out and place in your new fuel and new chip. Your going to have a lot gooing on especially with chips and the laptop and changing wideband preferences for different fuels and having to remember alot of parameter's on what your car should be running with on the different fuels. Im not sure how the actual wideband would like all of the different fuels also. Might have to change them out alot quicker or atleast calibrate the sensor after every change in fuel. You will have a lot going on.

 

[87-WE2]

All I have to say is plan on falling in love with E85. I mixed it with some 93 and it killed a pesky occasional KR I've been having. I'm in the middle of a full-blown conversion right now - chip to arrive tomorrow. I hope I can get my arse in the garage tonight & get the pump changed out.

I haven't smelled french fries yet, but I think I can live with that!! I could think of worse things that exhaust gas could smell like!!!

 

[87chrisss]

All I have to say is plan on falling in love with E85. I mixed it with some 93 and it killed a pesky occasional KR I've been having. I'm in the middle of a full-blown conversion right now - chip to arrive tomorrow. I hope I can get my arse in the garage tonight & get the pump changed out.

i personally mix my 93 premium and e85 about a 30 70 mix for my DAILY driver T-type your pump gas already has up to 10% ethanol. So i still Get good mileage no reeking e85, and i can boost the car a bit more. i also run some home made alky as well and i run 57# injectors. and a single pump thats very quite. Now on my other car im building it will have 120's and str8 e85 but that car will be abused and ridden hard it will be my dirty betch whore that i choke a little harder. lol..

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

thanks guys for the replies
i am not hell bent on absolute performance gotta get every single HP out of my car.
i just want to learn and try stuff for my self and have fun doing it. It also doesn't hurt to be able to keep up when the conversation goes from one fuel to another.
the track race fuel stuff will only be 2 times a year tops 3 (black Friday at ATCO) so i wont have a problem switching out (draining the tank)
The E85 may be for weeks at a time until a road trip comes up on the schedule.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

So injectors size starts at a minimum of 80# to max of 120# for 93 & alky for my application???

 

[87chrisss]

No with alky and pump gas good injectors would be in the range between 42.5 #'s - 60's i have run pretty good with no problems in the 11' s Also most people do pretty good with them as well... Above that 72 80's 90's and 120's are more for faster car's bigger cubes more boost etc.. that require more fuel. OR the biiger injector is required for ethanol as it will eat up 33% more fuel than pump gas, There is a few good threads on injector sizing for ethanol.
If you go on Turbotweak.com and click on injectors he gives you a pretty good write up of how far you can go with different sizes.

 

[87-WE2]

I have seen info on the board that 80's with alky will take you to mid to low 10's. I wanna say faster, but I think I'm pretty safe in that statement.

TurboTweak says that 60's with E85 will take you high 11's - some would say that's pushing it. My opinion is that it won't hurt to have a little cushion. The $ difference between one size injector & the next up is NOT all that much when considering that the alternative is a melted piston that's going to cost a multi-thousand dollar rebuild!!

The thing you need to know is that if you plan to run E85, your injectors need to be CONSIDERABLY larger than they would need to be with race gas or 93/alky. I believe that the consensus is around 30% larger. So if your duty cycle is 80% with 42.5's, you would need at least 55's to keep that 80% duty cycle if you switched to E85. If you don't know your injector duty cycle with your current set-up, then aim HIGH.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

My best 11.74 Run
at the traps duty cycle was 97 %
42.5 injectors & TT5.6 chip
Boost 23.7
Alky set at 7 (i think)
93 octane
5450 RPM
NB O2 .811
20.1 * of timing.

I am looking for an Injector to use with both 93oct. and that will support E85 at 25 plus PSI on my build.
like 87-we2 said id rather have more injector than buy too small AGAIN.

 

[87GN_70GS]

With any injector larger than 60#/hr, you will need more pump. Could be as easy as adding an in-line pump or dropping the tank for in-tank pump(s)

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

TTT

 

[John Larkin]

Eric told me that I should be good to mid-11s with my 72s and E85. I also use a Caspers Volt Booster and a DW301 pump. If you are going to 10.90 like your signature says then you would best off talking to him. I would say 83s or 96s should get the job done but he knows more about duty cycle than me or probably most anyone else.

 

[QWKRTNU]

Don't forget on e85 you should run a colder plug

 

[larry33kc]

E85 DOES NOT SMELL LIKE FRENCH FRIES. I don't know why this keeps coming up, E85 is ethanol not cooking oil that gets revined and used as desiel fuel. It does have a different smell than gas but it does not smell like French fries

 

[87-WE2]

E85 DOES NOT SMELL LIKE FRENCH FRIES. I don't know why this keeps coming up, E85 is ethanol not cooking oil that gets revined and used as desiel fuel. It does have a different smell than gas but it does not smell like French fries

Bummer!! That was half the reason i converted!!!!

 

[87chrisss]

E85 DOES NOT SMELL LIKE FRENCH FRIES. I don't know why this keeps coming up, E85 is ethanol not cooking oil that gets revined and used as desiel fuel. It does have a different smell than gas but it does not smell like French fries

So what does it smell like? It freaking reeks out of everywhere IMO! But Deep fry some french fries or chicken in wesson cooking oil... pick up the burnd Chit on the bottom and smell it. i have ran e85 for years no it doesnt smell like a batch of french fries but it does smell like burning toasted fried anything on the bottom of used oil. Sometimes it also smell like vodka as well... i mix my e85 with a dab of benol oil so mine smells funkier and a little sweeter smell like cooking sweet potato fries and women perfume... Sounds weird but it kinda does smell like it.. Ever ridden a banshee or a 2stroke dirtbike mine smells like the benoil oil and the e85 mixed.. Go into your kitchen and stick your nose in some cooking oil i think there is a bit of contrast but you can smell it... google it im not the only one who thinks this crazy idea...Not sure if my nose is polluted but i can even smell traces of it in olive oil especially La Espanola olive oil..

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

The horse says

I would use 80's for your setup in order to run E85.

Is every one in agreement with this??
I really don't want to buy a third set of injectors.

 

[we4Mateo]

The horse says

Is every one in agreement with this??
I really don't want to buy a third set of injectors.

80's are the biggest you can get with an unmodified ECM. If you go bigger, you need an ecm mod for the injector drivers. If you go 80s, you'll need a super single pump, as mentioned, or maybe even a double pumper setup. If you ever plan on running E85, at your goals, I think you need more injector. If you stick with 93/alky and race gas at the track, 60's and a good single pump will get you there. It's the E85 that throws a wrench in things. If you want to go E85, build a dedicated E85 fuel system, mod the ecm, get the 120's and be done. It'll still run on the regular fuels too, but with E85, you'll need lines and everything, so just build it around that and your goals if E85 is to be a requirement.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

80's are the biggest you can get with an unmodified ECM. If you go bigger, you need an ecm mod for the injector drivers. If you go 80s, you'll need a super single pump, as mentioned, or maybe even a double pumper setup. If you ever plan on running E85, at your goals, I think you need more injector. If you stick with 93/alky and race gas at the track, 60's and a good single pump will get you there. It's the E85 that throws a wrench in things. If you want to go E85, build a dedicated E85 fuel system, mod the ecm, get the 120's and be done. It'll still run on the regular fuels too, but with E85, you'll need lines and everything, so just build it around that and your goals if E85 is to be a requirement.

How much boost do you think the 80#rs can support on my build? 25psi??
I am not going to go for maximum performance on E85 as i am still planning on using race fuel at the track for my pipe dream time slips.
My dilemma is that at one time i thought that i was going to be happy with a 12.99 run, now at 11.74 and looking for more.

If i like the E85 as much as you guys i might just end up using it at the track and coming up short in the fuel system again.

And as i found out buying things twice or 3 times is way too expensive. Overkill hurt the pocket a little buying multiples of the same things hurts your pockets a lot.
But if i can run 25psi boost on e85 on the street i think i would be happy with that.