Garrett or Precision; pros and cons

[chris kirk]

I see that most people on this board use or like Precision turbos (or if they don't have one, they talk about buying one). In recent years, to their acclaim, Precision has put out a great product, winning many titles along with numerous people on this board alone that have had excellent success, both recreation-ally and competitively with them. Garrett and Borg Werner on the other hand have been around for a long time which is why I don't quite understand why they aren't more popular in the Buick world. Please read the disclaimer: Before the insults start flying and people get offended, please let me make this clear; I am in no way trashing Precision turbos! And this is NOT my opinion! Very simply, I don't know enough about turbos and/or how they work to give/have an opinion and I'm not the bloviating type. I'm just simply saying what some venders have told me and what I've read. Thank you.... In the past (recent) I've spoken to Garrett and Borg Werner about their product and in comparison to others. The three venders have all said when it comes to hp rating they are all very close, however, Garrett and Borg Werner seem to address the same issue with Precision turbos; that is, they don't hold up as well as Garrett's and Borg Werner's do. I have also read the same things on some technical forums on the internet as well. I've read repeatedly on this board that the "Garrett ball bearing cartridge" is the best. Without getting to technical, why is it the best? I ask, because it's getting to be about that time for me to purchase a turbo and I have a couple in mind for my application (Precision or Garrett) but I'm not sure which brand, and therefore, would like some opinion on what others have experienced using Precision and/or Garrett.

 

[wb's87]

I love the way my turbonetics turbo works. I'd buy one again.


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[SCOOBY DOO]

Precision here...time and build is in my sig. I grudge/bracket race my car most weekends spring to fall. This will be the fourth season for this JB turbo. I give it an "A" for durability/reliability.

 

[NY Twin Turbo]

I've got twin Turbonetic BB turbos. I don't know who makes a "better" turbo. I guess it's hard to compare. Seems like a lot of turbos are mixmatched parts from different sources. I think it comes down to whether it's got the right flow characteristics for your combo.

Precision is a supporting vendor for Turbo Buicks. Not just the forum, the brand as well. Before the whole turbo thing "blew up" in the street hot-rod world, Harry was catering to us. That means something. I didn't decide to use Turbonetic turbos. I trusted people who knew more then I for the decisions made on most of the hard-parts of the combo (and I'm happy I did). However, for a simple combo upgrade, I think you would do as well with a Precision as any other. My opinion is, if you can, stick with the "Turbo Buick friends" when you build your combo. Helps you as well as all of us.

 

[20psiofevil]

Precision got a bad rep early on when they got away from garrett. The issues I have first hand experience with precision was with their 6765 turbo. 2 local racers both had the same issues and the seals were leaking. After numerous rebuilds through precision, precision pretty much told the fellas it was their fault the seals were not holding up. Even though everything was checked out by a local speed shop and they confirmed it was turbo defect.

I run a 6262 for a few years but wanted to step up to a turbo more capable of supporting 700rwhp and allow my motor to make power in the upper rpm. I had good luck with the precision and started to go back with the 6766 but did not want to risk my money on this unit so went with the s366 borg warner unit. I know I'm sacrificing some spool time but my motor is a bit more modern and makes great tq to get up to speed without boost due to the tuned splitport runners.

What is your goal?

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

for me it was the price.
like a true cheap ass that i am i was looking at a $1200 X brand turbo VS the $599.00 on sale Precision and so far so good 10k miles on it and no problems, it was recently rebuilt only because it being up graded.

 

[V6sleeper]

Too many variables to consider which brand is best, you have to look at your combo and see what will work best for your set up might be a custom built or a hybrid turbo, but customer service is everything id go with a vender on this board so if theirs ever a problem it can be addressed quickly and honestly..

 

[jpwalt1987]

If you want a NO BS answer to that question talk to Reed@ WORK turbos. He rebuilds all kinds of brands including Precision, Garrett and is a BorgWarner dealer. I personally have an S300sx3 BW from him and I love it. Spools faster than I need it to.

 

[TTA976]

Too many variables to consider which brand is best, you have to look at your combo and see what will work best for your set up might be a custom built or a hybrid turbo, but customer service is everything id go with a vender on this board so if theirs ever a problem it can be addressed quickly and honestly..

I totally agree. One vendor here can custom spec a turbo for your application. Just knowing someone with his enthusiasm, professionalism and knowledge his putting it together for you wins me over. Pte make excellent turbo's too.

Joe

 

[Nick Micale]

The key word in your post Chris is "application"?

There are many different turbo "builders" and many different applications. The next parameter to define is street vs. track use as the upper RPM and HP range differs a lot. Street cars need mid-range power and torque, track cars need high RPM quickly and for a sustained period.

I think that I can safely say that the majority of owners on this board with a turbo Buick are using a 3 bolt turbo, and almost all other non-Buicks use a 4 bolt exhaust housing. Also most of the owners here are also NOT racers, but are mainly concerned with street, and only little track performance.

With all that said, in the range of performance GN's from 13 sec. builds to high 9 sec. builds, when using a 3 bolt turbo and street drivability/response it is very hard to beat a turbo with a Garrett exhaust housing, and this is based upon a few hundred builds over 25 years. The Precision 3 bolt housing will deliver more power at higher RPM, but generally the given HP will even out between the 2 housings.

Some of the newer turbo with billet wheels and/or ball bearing center sections work extremely well, but at almost twice the cost of "old school" turbos with a Garrett housing.

 

[Eticket]

To the original poster.. do you have a GN? by chance you do not, PTE's and Turbonetics offers a "BOLT ON" turbo for the buicks. That makes them very compelling and they offer bolt-ons for every power level including enough to split the block in 1/2. Basically, there's no reason to make a bunch of mods to a 4 bolt setup including potentially lots of fab work.

As far as turbo selection, unless you're a shop owner yourself, than there's not much more compelling reason to select a turbo brand than buying a turbo that a dealer recommends and supports and has test data to prove performance is all.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Just like everything else on our beloved little turbo Buicks, the choice is "to each his own".

You will get many, many opinions here.

The ultimate answer? That will be whatever you decide upon.

 

[bison]

The funny thing is there are 3 turbos that can cover almost the entire spread from low 12's down to 9.50 or possibly even faster. 4 from stock to low 11's if you count the stock one which moves a huge amount of air for what it is. As fancy as people think they can get there's not much about the physics of it that can be changed. Response and mass flow can be improved slightly with certain wheels and certain housing choices but the turbo by itself isn't going to make a huge difference in power if it's even close to being correct for the combo. Just about everything that is sold by niche companies are copies of garrett t3/t4. Most through the early 2000's were combinations of Garrett brand wheels or almost exact copies of them. The t04e60, 60-1, and t04z compressors cover just about everything in turbo regals from low 12's to high 9's. Converter selection, suspension, gearing, and someone to sort it all out is often missing. Plenty of $1500+ turbos on cars that run like poop. Turbos don't make power. They support mass flow.


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[GNBRETT]

well ur 6265 has to be turned up to 30 lbs to make the power u need to go low 10's. a Precision CEA Gen II 6466 will make the same if not more power at 25 lbs of boost which means less back pressure. or are you saying if u had the 6466 on ur car u wud still need to turn it up to 30 lbs to make the same power?

The funny thing is there are 3 turbos that can cover almost the entire spread from low 12's down to 9.50 or possibly even faster. 4 from stock to low 11's if you count the stock one which moves a huge amount of air for what it is. As fancy as people think they can get there's not much about the physics of it that can be changed. Response and mass flow can be improved slightly with certain wheels and certain housing choices but the turbo by itself isn't going to make a huge difference in power if it's even close to being correct for the combo. Just about everything that is sold by niche companies are copies of garrett t3/t4. Most through the early 2000's were combinations of Garrett brand wheels or almost exact copies of them. The t04e60, 60-1, and t04z compressors cover just about everything in turbo regals from low 12's to high 9's. Converter selection, suspension, gearing, and someone to sort it all out is often missing. Plenty of $1500+ turbos on cars that run like poop. Turbos don't make power. They support mass flow.


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[bison]

well ur 6265 has to be turned up to 30 lbs to make the power u need to go low 10's. a Precision CEA Gen II 6466 will make the same if not more power at 25 lbs of boost which means less back pressure. or are you saying if u had the 6466 on ur car u wud still need to turn it up to 30 lbs to make the same power?

Seen plenty of 6466 cars turned up with strokers and what on 116 octane struggle to run faster than mid 10's. If I took the same 6265 I ran this past year on a stock short block and ran it on a 9.:5:1 engine with a better valve train, good fuel, in better air I have little doubt it could run the same times at 4-5psi less boost and it's likely capable of pushing an all steel car to high 9.60's. Another thing to note is that the car went 10.20 on its first full pass with that turbo at LVD. With 93/alky That's over a tenth faster than anyone else has posted here with a similar turbo. The car was never meant to be pushed as hard as it has but it ran so well I wanted to see what it was worth on a stock shortblock. Don't forget I have plenty of real data on turbos. I know where they "run out". You don't know shit about drive pressure or thermodynamics in general and I doubt you'd be saying shit if you had to line up in the other lane against me. No matter what turbo you had. Yes this is a call out. If I ever wanted to rate a post "dumb", your last one takes the cake. To redeem yourself maybe you should take a stock shortblock with off the shelf cam and 93/Alky drive it over 5 hours to the drag strip and go run a better time.. Use any turbo you want. Good luck. To the OP im sorry i just pooped up your thread. Not my intention at all but won't put up with bad info in the tech forum.


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[GNBRETT]

don't get ur panties its knot douchebag I simply asked if you if you were running the new Precision 6466 Turbo wud u make more power at the same boost level? ur the one that told me u had to run ur 6265 ALL ITS GOT to go low 10's.... which is 30+ lbs. do u not remember telling me that last week. those were ur words not mine.

im not questioning the 10.20 pass as not being good but u seem to be the only guy on the planet that can run 30 lbs of boost on pump gas and I don't have faith in running 30 lbs of boost on pump gas without the motor grenading into a 1000 pieces which is why I'm lookn for somthn that will make similar power at a lower boost level like 25 lbs.

u stated in post #13 ...."Response and mass flow can be improved slightly with certain wheels and certain housing choices but the turbo by itself isn't going to make a huge difference in power if it's even close to being correct for the combo."

heaven forbid someone ask u a question about a Precision turbo for whatever reason u seem to bash anytime I ask u a question about it like I have something to gain. I don't have anything to gain. ur the turbo expert not me which is why I'm asking YOU the question so u can get off ur high horse. u have this superiority complex whenever someone asks u a question about a turbo other then the ones u sell. I don't care what u sell or what anyone else sells it was simple question that u have conveniently decided to ignore.....

im not asking you about a stroker or better gas or better drivetrain. WTF are u talkn about? try to stay on point here.... I'm talkn about YOUR car with its current setup. wud ur 6265 make more power at the same boost level as the new 6466?

its simple question? u said the turbo really doesn't make a difference so I'm trying to decide if buying a newer turbo is worth the money since my setup is similar to urs minus the aluminum heads since my car has one of ur 6265 turbos as well.

redeem myself? redeem myself from what exactly? asking u a question about a Precision Turbo? so now ur a tough guy? a keyboard warrior cause someone asked u a question about a turbo other then the one you sell? grow up and act ur age!

we both know ur NOT a tough so stop trying to act like one. the only thing "Dumb" here is ur inability to answer a simple question about a Precision Turbo. and we both know you wudnt run ur mouth to me in person cause u know id knock ur fukn teeth out so trying to sound tough in front of board members.

Seen plenty of 6466 cars turned up with strokers and what on 116 octane struggle to run faster than mid 10's. If I took the same 6265 I ran this past year on a stock short block and ran it on a 9.:5:1 engine with a better valve train, good fuel, in better air I have little doubt it could run the same times at 4-5psi less boost and it's likely capable of pushing an all steel car to high 9.60's. Another thing to note is that the car went 10.20 on its first full pass with that turbo at LVD. With 93/alky That's over a tenth faster than anyone else has posted here with a similar turbo. The car was never meant to be pushed as hard as it has but it ran so well I wanted to see what it was worth on a stock shortblock. Don't forget I have plenty of real data on turbos. I know where they "run out". You don't know shit about drive pressure or thermodynamics in general and I doubt you'd be saying shit if you had to line up in the other lane against me. No matter what turbo you had. Yes this is a call out. If I ever wanted to rate a post "dumb", your last one takes the cake. To redeem yourself maybe you should take a stock shortblock with off the shelf cam and 93/Alky drive it over 5 hours to the drag strip and go run a better time.. Use any turbo you want. Good luck. To the OP im sorry i just pooped up your thread. Not my intention at all but won't put up with bad info in the tech forum.


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[NY Twin Turbo]

Let me guess...........you guys are good friends in real life.

Well, anyway. Chris Kirk, good luck on your purchase. As you can see here, it's pretty much what I said in the beginning. Get the right one for your combo. Reliability isn't much of an issue. Some get lucky and they last forever. Some do not. I never owned a turbo long enough to wear it out. Always, I out-grew them. But, I still say no matter what, support one of the Buick specific vendors. Even if we seem to quarrel from time to time.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Wow!

 

[GNBRETT]

yea we are. we talk shit to each other all the time.... no big deal. we both have thick skin.

Let me guess...........you guys are good friends in real life.

Well, anyway. Chris Kirk, good luck on your purchase. As you can see here, it's pretty much what I said in the beginning. Get the right one for your combo. Reliability isn't much of an issue. Some get lucky and they last forever. Some do not. I never owned a turbo long enough to wear it out. Always, I out-grew them. But, I still say no matter what, support one of the Buick specific vendors. Even if we seem to quarrel from time to time.

 

[chris kirk]

To the original poster.. do you have a GN? by chance you do not, PTE's and Turbonetics offers a "BOLT ON" turbo for the buicks. That makes them very compelling and they offer bolt-ons for every power level including enough to split the block in 1/2. Basically, there's no reason to make a bunch of mods to a 4 bolt setup including potentially lots of fab work.

As far as turbo selection, unless you're a shop owner yourself, than there's not much more compelling reason to select a turbo brand than buying a turbo that a dealer recommends and supports and has test data to prove performance is all.

Eticket, yes I do have a gn. Nick Micale built a TA aluminum stroker for me. The car has been in about a thousand pieces for almost two years now. It's gettin there. Was waiting on the frame. Chassis' painted. The frame has finally been powder coated so now it's just a matter of buying the rest of the parts that I need (like a turbo, ignition, injectors, fuel pump....) and put it back together. Like I said I know the size I want to use for my application, I'm just not sure of the brand. I'm probably going to use a Garrett (T4). That's what I had planned on a while back, but just like to hear what the experienced have to say. One of my philosophies is, it can't hurt to ask questions..... And also, I'm trying not to become a parts collector, so I would like to get the selection right the first time for a change.....