I want to Thank You for everyones insight. I do realize that most set-ups are bound by physical limits (ie:compress effeciency, volumetic effiecencies and the like), but where to the limits of the engineering of the day exist. Do we need to be in the 10's or the 9's or the 8's... Where can we as a group say: "We Own The The 12's" or "We Own The 13's" or "We Own The 11's." There are always extremes! I want to know, at the end of the day, that there are others who love tinkering with things, that where firsts of their day. And that their understanding may be greater than mine. Well that a great thing for everyone!!! By the way Who are our vendors?
Are the HA's fading into oblivion?
- Thread starter tbronk41
- Start date
I just bought an all original 1984 T-type. It has been sitting under a carport for years and heard some guys talking about it so went and looked at it one day. I started researching it thought this would be a really nice piece of American muscle car history to own and I was already in the market for an 80's turbo car. I was looking for a car at the time anyways and had just had SVO Mustang sold out from under me after agreeing to buy (Dont do that people, if you make a deal with someone, you should give them the opportunity to make good on that deal) turns out the owner works behind where I work so I asked him about it. It belonged to a Mexican guy about 40 or 50 and the ignition went bad nobody in town could order a new one so he just parked it. He said alot of people had tried to buy it, but he was reluctant because they all talked about painting it black and putting the IC in it and he was trying to keep it original. Since I like white cars better anyways, I said what if I promise to keep it white and build her back up. He said 2K and its yours. I said deal.
I am still in process of getting her running again. I have replaced the ignition upgraded to Caspers 102084 Ignition Hotwire kit, 3x2 coil pack w/MSD coils, and a Optima Red Top battery. I went to try and start her up the other day and ran into another problem. From what others have said, I need to adjust something in the steering column (the rod?) or something. The key will power on, but wont do anything past that. I think it could also be the neutral safety switch. The shifters top is broken off the button that you push down to shift sometimes sticks in down position. I am pretty sure it was locked into the neutral position as I took it out of and put back in a few times while trying to start it. But, I also know there is a safety switch somewhere in there. We will see. I will get the codes on it sometime this week and see what they say if anything.
I am in process of getting wheels for it right now so will keep everyone updated on my progress. I am about to post a thread on some wheels I am looking at feel free to chime in with opinions.
I am still in process of getting her running again. I have replaced the ignition upgraded to Caspers 102084 Ignition Hotwire kit, 3x2 coil pack w/MSD coils, and a Optima Red Top battery. I went to try and start her up the other day and ran into another problem. From what others have said, I need to adjust something in the steering column (the rod?) or something. The key will power on, but wont do anything past that. I think it could also be the neutral safety switch. The shifters top is broken off the button that you push down to shift sometimes sticks in down position. I am pretty sure it was locked into the neutral position as I took it out of and put back in a few times while trying to start it. But, I also know there is a safety switch somewhere in there. We will see. I will get the codes on it sometime this week and see what they say if anything.
I am in process of getting wheels for it right now so will keep everyone updated on my progress. I am about to post a thread on some wheels I am looking at feel free to chime in with opinions.
turbobooster
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2002
It's not a dieing breed that's for sure it's only a few willing to stay with it and take on the challenge ( I am one of them ) I'm a diehard hot air with my 85 ttype there are guys and gals on here that will still reach out to help on the smallest things to keep the true hot air running strong and healthy which I'm grateful for if it wasn't for some of the members here I'd be completely lost and I wouldn't have a complete understanding and appreciation of my 85 hot air some guys will convert which is an awesome set up looks sweet but I choose not to now that I finally got my smog done
I'm ready to finally get this car going again and I can't wait to get it on the road again and have others wonder where and what and how is it turbo without an intercooler stay with it it's rare it's unique and it's fun
I'm ready to finally get this car going again and I can't wait to get it on the road again and have others wonder where and what and how is it turbo without an intercooler stay with it it's rare it's unique and it's funMikeStarner
Broke Guy
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2010
I don't know how many vendors cater to these cars. I know my vendor is Gbody. They have it all, and if mine keeps breaking I'm gonna need it all,lol. I think as a group we will all grow, more of us are becoming ten second capable. Brent has the fastest one I know about, mine will be ten second capable when I can afford to work on the suspension, and who knows how many other guys are flying through the traps. It's just R&D is taking awhile but at least people are doing it. It wasn't touched at all for years so no wonder we are behind the curve.
I'm a car guy. I love cars in general. I have a history of doing things the hard way, meaning making cars fast that really shouldn't be. Lol. Despite all that, I still don't understand the "hot air" mind set.
If someone is curious to see what they can make an HA car do, I get it. But to get all bent at people that want to upgrade to an intercooled setup? I don't understand. Even GM realized it's better, as has every engineer in the world.
"well, people just want an easy way to make more power!".
DUH. Lol
Why spend more money to go slower? I'm not wealthy.
So. Adding an intercooler is blasphemy! But.. um...nitrous is okay. Isn't that a cheaper and easier way to make power? Alcohol...e85..that's all okay, but an intercooler is not.
I dont get it unless someone is building a museum-quality restore.
"if you want intercooled, go buy one".
Yeah, cause we all have the budget for that. if using newer and improved technology is so bad, we should all go back to carbs. I mean, why not REALLY handicap ourselves.
To each their own. I'm making things harder on myself: custom '86 plenum and tb, clocking the stock turbo, and fashioning ic piping to a front mount. Now, not only do I have little to no support for parts, but a lot of mine will have to be engineered and fabbed. No replacements.
Not too smart, if you ask me. Still, it's cheaper than $2000 for an '87 swap but will still get my charge temps down.
Everyone had their own methods and reasons.
Just my opinion, though. I always seem to think differently than most.
If someone is curious to see what they can make an HA car do, I get it. But to get all bent at people that want to upgrade to an intercooled setup? I don't understand. Even GM realized it's better, as has every engineer in the world.
"well, people just want an easy way to make more power!".
DUH. Lol
Why spend more money to go slower? I'm not wealthy.
So. Adding an intercooler is blasphemy! But.. um...nitrous is okay. Isn't that a cheaper and easier way to make power? Alcohol...e85..that's all okay, but an intercooler is not.
I dont get it unless someone is building a museum-quality restore.
"if you want intercooled, go buy one".
Yeah, cause we all have the budget for that.
if using newer and improved technology is so bad, we should all go back to carbs. I mean, why not REALLY handicap ourselves. To each their own. I'm making things harder on myself: custom '86 plenum and tb, clocking the stock turbo, and fashioning ic piping to a front mount. Now, not only do I have little to no support for parts, but a lot of mine will have to be engineered and fabbed. No replacements.
Not too smart, if you ask me. Still, it's cheaper than $2000 for an '87 swap but will still get my charge temps down.
Everyone had their own methods and reasons.
Just my opinion, though. I always seem to think differently than most.
maybe. but i'm in this to make any money. just have fun. i always, ALWAYS loose money when selling a car. the reason is: i have so much fun and spend money on the thing. i don't do things with resale value in mind. it's a hobby, not an investment.
even still, i'm assuming you are referring to an HA car hopefully being worth more in the future? i have yet to see an HA car sell for more than an intercooled car in equal condition. i understand why, though.
if i would have had a bit more money and better timing, i for SURE would have preferred an '86 or '87. eh well.
we deal with the hands we're dealt. i'll make the best of it.
turbonut85
Rarely used member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
Kudos to you on making yourself happy with your car. Thats what you should do. You have made your opinion clear (in several threads in this section) so it might be time to move on and refrain from stirring the coals on this subject. Just a thought...
maybe. but i'm in this to make any money. just have fun. i always, ALWAYS loose money when selling a car. the reason is: i have so much fun and spend money on the thing. i don't do things with resale value in mind. it's a hobby, not an investment.
even still, i'm assuming you are referring to an HA car hopefully being worth more in the future? i have yet to see an HA car sell for more than an intercooled car in equal condition. i understand why, though.
if i would have had a bit more money and better timing, i for SURE would have preferred an '86 or '87. eh well.
we deal with the hands we're dealt. i'll make the best of it.
Glad to hear you're gonna try and make it work. Just so you know, I got the car for $500 and a very long trip from Texas to Missurri (sp) and back agian. The most I've driven it was on and off the trailer so far and it had rotted rears and a rod knock. I guess you could call it a junk yard special since most of the parts I've gotten and modified to fit are out of salvage or scrounged so far. I've done the work myself including boxing the frame and very special suspension mods that won't all be shown since I really don't want any copy cats.:biggrin: The modified turbo was even scrounged and so far it's the largest "stock" turbo for one of the original HA C/T cars.
I have more time in it than parts, money wise, but I'm doing about 99% of the work myself so I guess you could say I'm ahead of the game in the end.
my bad. people keep bringing the subject up, commenting on it, and stirring up coals. i though i could too. i'll leave the discussion for everyone else while i move on.
Glad to hear you're gonna try and make it work. Just so you know, I got the car for $500 and a very long trip from Texas to Missurri (sp) and back agian. The most I've driven it was on and off the trailer so far and it had rotted rears and a rod knock. I guess you could call it a junk yard special since most of the parts I've gotten and modified to fit are out of salvage or scrounged so far. I've done the work myself including boxing the frame and very special suspension mods that won't all be shown since I really don't want any copy cats.:biggrin: The modified turbo was even scrounged and so far it's the largest "stock" turbo for one of the original HA C/T cars.
I have more time in it than parts, money wise, but I'm doing about 99% of the work myself so I guess you could say I'm ahead of the game in the end.
NICE! same here. i am only buying what i need to right now. also, doing ALL work myself (the point of the project in the first place
)there is a lot of fun and pride to be had on doing everything ourselves (well okay. i don't do transmissions nor welding LOL). you are definitely ahead in the cost department!
i'd comment further, but it seems i'm not allowed to play any more. LOL
turbonut85
Rarely used member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
Kaj, your comments are being recieved as you are degrading or knocking on people who want to keep their cars hot air for whatever reasons...it is apparent that you know this is subject is one alot of people feel strongly about...and it seems you like to get a rise out of them. I am just giving a point of view...i could care less what anyone does with their own car...so long as it makes them happy. You are welcome to post anywhere you want...please just don't say things merely to get a reaction out of people. Again, just another thought...
Well if you click on the second link in my sig you can get an idea of the turbo up-grade I figured out and here's a little more for you to look at. It's my car under construction. I haven't posted anything lately but the new frame is boxed and there's some suspension mods that are in the process, but they aren't gonna be posted, like I said.:biggrin:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/before-black-non-sfi-tech/322115-finally-got-some-time.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/before-black-non-sfi-tech/322115-finally-got-some-time.html
Actually, I feel just the opposite. Like I said: my history has always been doing things that are a bit out of the ordinary. I get it completely. I also would support anyone that takes the road less traveled to show what they can do. I've done the same, many times.
The only thing I don't understand is the reaction from some people for disconnecting the turbo from the manifold. It's their attitudes that seem ignorant, not what they do with their cars.
MikeStarner
Broke Guy
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2010
And this is where I'm split. I agree with both sides. I would love to go intercooled because it would lower under hood temps by removing the up pipe, improve power by adding the I/C to cool the charge and improve power due to the intake design. But on the flip side I agree with having it look factory style and breaking records and such. My thing is kind of what kaj is saying that a persons car is a persons car, but people want to argue over I/C or non I/C. If I wanted to put a small block in this thing I would be treated as an outcast over nothing, I would never do that anyway but it's just the point of it all. And also I believe I would be happier seeing someone convert to I/C over using nos, but then again I think it is fine to use e85 or alky. So is my opinion flawed? To some yes others no, but when it all comes down to it we are all turbo regal owners and the fighting is pretty sad/lame.
Amen to that. I guess we're all underdogs and doing things the hard way, in some way. We all have a V6. Lol. If we were REALLY looking for an easy way out, we'd go V8. Talk about booooooooring.
As for shooting for an HA record or running an IC? Tough choice right there. Which way are you leaning? I decided to keep my stock basic configuration and just add an IC. Sadly that seriously limits my header/downpipe/etc choices.
MikeStarner
Broke Guy
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2010
Idk I didn't expect to do so much to my hot air. I planned on just going with my .030 over 3.8 and I/C conversion but one bad oil filter lead to this 4.1 build. So in all honesty I have no clue.
Just my .02
I have been around Buicks since my Dads GS and his Riviera GS. When Buick started Turbocharging V6's I fell in love. Many of my friends have them: carbed, injected, intercooled. I have worked on them all. The most fun was the carbed. We got a 83 Carbed into the 11's. We tried to document this in HOT ROD, CAR CRAFT and POPULAR HOT RODDING and no one wanted to talked to us because the injected cars were running in the low 11/high 10's.
My T Type is joy.... I got a chance to go to INDY in the 90's and saw the stock block Buick V6's dominate. For this reason, I will keep my car in a Hot Air configuration. My car has run 12's on NOS (75-90hp). I have also used a SPEARCO kit on a friend's HA. I have used a crude water injection/NOS on a carbed car and it made a big difference.
I have stated before I plan to test all of the above: NOS, ALKY, and INTERCOOLER. I have been curious to find out what each is worth alone... If the motor survives, I plan to test all three together. Ironically all will be done in Hot Air Configuration......
So the answer is HA are not fading, we are just finding different ways to go FAST... You will never crack the 11's with the HA computer nor without some cooling: alky, intercooler, or NOS....
I have been around Buicks since my Dads GS and his Riviera GS. When Buick started Turbocharging V6's I fell in love. Many of my friends have them: carbed, injected, intercooled. I have worked on them all. The most fun was the carbed. We got a 83 Carbed into the 11's. We tried to document this in HOT ROD, CAR CRAFT and POPULAR HOT RODDING and no one wanted to talked to us because the injected cars were running in the low 11/high 10's.
My T Type is joy.... I got a chance to go to INDY in the 90's and saw the stock block Buick V6's dominate. For this reason, I will keep my car in a Hot Air configuration. My car has run 12's on NOS (75-90hp). I have also used a SPEARCO kit on a friend's HA. I have used a crude water injection/NOS on a carbed car and it made a big difference.
I have stated before I plan to test all of the above: NOS, ALKY, and INTERCOOLER. I have been curious to find out what each is worth alone... If the motor survives, I plan to test all three
together. Ironically all will be done in Hot Air Configuration......So the answer is HA are not fading, we are just finding different ways to go FAST... You will never crack the 11's with the HA computer nor without some cooling: alky, intercooler, or NOS....
MikeStarner
Broke Guy
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2010
Well I'll tell you any streetable recipe to make my 4.1 just flat out evil would be all I would want so if anyone knows how to make this run high 9's low 10's and be daily driven I'd appreciate the help.
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