ZDDP question

[TurboMonte 2]

Valvoline Oils?

Richard,

Did you find any diff in Zn, P between regular Valvoline oil & their Racing Oils (VR1--I believe)??? I have not yet been able to look at cans (oops--now bottles?) for S_ rating. I gather from your prev comment, that if VR1 has a SM rating on it--it will not contain more ZN, P (ZDDP) than regular Valvoline oil??

Thanks, Monte

 

[A2000RICH]

Richard,

Did you find any diff in Zn, P between regular Valvoline oil & their Racing Oils (VR1--I believe)??? I have not yet been able to look at cans (oops--now bottles?) for S_ rating. I gather from your prev comment, that if VR1 has a SM rating on it--it will not contain more ZN, P (ZDDP) than regular Valvoline oil??

Thanks, Monte

If it has ANY it will be more than regular 10w-30 Valvoline since the SM street oil has NONE--------------------
i did not bother to test racing oils for several reasons------first i have little reason to doubt that racing oils are deficient in necessary additives for RACING applications------they probably contain helalthy doses of ZDDP and other good stuff------that said they also do not contain what is necessary for NON race cars------real race cars get their oil changed after every race and usually the engines rebuilt-----just because we race our cars that does not make them real race cars-----the additives that are necessary for long stays in the crankcase are just not there and as such this class of oil is not really a good choice for 99% of the TR market-------long term use of these types of oils will result in other types of problems but if folks want to do it its their car------its really no different than racing tires-------also these oils are not readily available as normal oils and are usually priced at a premium-------last is the type of test i have run are not the everyday "used oil analysis" that costs less than a hundred bucks that everyone is familiar with--------they are extremely expensive and they result in a seperate charge for each element-------i don't think it makes sense to use racing oil for a street driven car and i dont' think it makes sense to spend lots of money testing oil that is unsuitable from the start-------the intent of this additive was for guys like me that just want to buy brand name quality oil at Walmart at a cheap price and not have to worry that their cars are protected...........RC

 

[A2000RICH]

as the crank turns..................

In a previous post I mentioned the engine used in the ASTM D 5533 Sequence IIIE test. It really was a 109 block but in its test garb it was hardly fit for a TR. I want to digress for a few lines just so you can get a feel for just how much effort goes into these tests. The setup instructions for this test are about an inch thick and cover the minutest details on how to assemble the engine, run the test sequence and what and how to measure everything. Some interesting details are the engine uses a carburetor, distributor and water jacketed exhaust manifolds. The book even details how to machine a “calibrated dipstick” for checking oil level. There are pictures of the complete setup ready for testing and the engine is covered with so many wires and sensors it is barely recognizable. Unlike some of the tests I will cover later, this test is designed to test certain high temperature performance characteristics related to oil performance and cam/lifter wear.
This test is conducted in the following manner. When the engine is prepped and ready for the test sequence there is a specified break in procedure beginning with an ignition timing run of 10 minutes. Before the engine is started the oil and coolant are brought up to operating temp from external heaters and already circulating in the engine from external pumps. There is a “lifer oiling wand” in the lifter galley that sprays oil over the cam and lifters. After starting it is stated that speed be set at 1500 RPM with no load for two minutes during which time the timing be set at 36 degrees BTDC. The remaining 8 minutes of the timing run are to be run at 1500 RPM with a modest load of 8.5 HP. After the initial timing run an oil sample is taken and then a break-in run is conducted. This consists of 4 one hour consecutive stages without a stop. The first stage is run at 1500 RPM @ 8.5 hp. The second stage is 2500 RPM @28 hp. The third stage is 3000 RPM @ 46 hp and the last is 3000 RPM @ 68 hp. When break-in is completed the test run is started and consists of a single 64 hour run at 3000 RPM @ 50 hp. with stops every 8 hours long enough to remove and replace a 2 oz oil sample. At the end of the run the entire engine is disassembled and all parts are measured. Of course the oil being tested is saved along with the 8 samples taken at each 8 hour segment.
By the time this sequence was put into place it appears that it was used to qualify API grades SH and SJ. Passing the test required that cam wear meet certain minimum values. It is at this point that some of the documents that I have are not totally clear-----or at the least are not in total agreement. API 1509 states that for API SH ILSAC GF-1 the requirements for cam wear in this sequence requires cam wear to be less than 30 mm average, 64mm maximum!!!! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that this is a misprint. This amount of wear would totally remove the entire cam lobe. ASTM-4485-07 corrects this with um and this sounds more believable. At any rate it appears that from the ASTM document that this test can be substituted with D 6984 Sequence IIIF. And the IIIF test can be substituted with D 7320 IIIG. It appears that the tester can choose either and any one can qualify for approval. In some of our later evaluations of SL and SM oil these test options are going to be very important to consider. These tests are similar to the IIIE sequence but replace the 109 block with a 3800 series II Buick V-6 engine. This approval probably came about with the unavailability of the 109 block sometime in the late 90’s.
IIIG is similar to IIIE but uses five 20 hour test runs after the break-in for a total test time of 100 hours. The engine is run at 3600 RPM @ 126 hp. IIIF is almost identical to IIIG except that the test time is 8 ten hour segments for a total time of 80 hours at 3600 RPM @ 100 hp. Cam measurements are somewhat different for these test sequences as they combine total lifter and cam lobe wear.
There are also three other engine cam test sequences and I will cover them soon and eventually we should get to the tests that define the oils that we buy today and what kind of performance is expected of them.