Your Thoughts

[87BLKGN]

Hey All
I got a 87 GN, 79k miles on it now. Was a complete virgin when I got it a few months ago. I've been getting performance parts here and there for it and installing them. There is a few things with the car that are making me concerned and would like opinions on how to go about everything.

(1) Car is leaking at the rear main seal it appears.
(2) Car has a small exhuast leak on the passenger side, I think its the header to the head. Not 100% sure.
(3) I am concerned about the timing chain at 79K. Is it a must I change this now? Are these engines interference engines?
(4) I've been told I need to change the valve springs because car has 79k miles on it,and they are more than likely worn out.

I come from the DSM world. Im a virgin with this engine and these cars. I was thinking about fixing everything with the engine in the car, but now I'm starting to think I should get my feet wet and take the motor out and fix everything on the engine stand, then put it back in the car. Hoping I can get it running again.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do if this was your car at 79k miles. The mods Ive done are in my sig. I appreciate your time. Thanks again

 

[John Larkin]

a. Rear main leaks are common. If you want to replace it you can but it may leak again. Let it be a major leak before repairing.
b. Passenger header is a PIA because the turbo is connected, the air box is cramped and in the way and the crossover bolts are likely rusted. Start soaking head bolts and turbo bolts with PB Blaster or your choice of penetrating oil. Break them free in about a week.
c. Timing chain not likely needed. I've never been told a RWD 231 is interference and I doubt they are.
d. Valve springs = yes. They are worn out by time at this point regardless of miles.

I wouldn't pull the engine. Repairs will be tight but do-able. Watch those valve keepers when changing springs (pack the head with rags and use the proper tool).

Your sig looks pretty standard on mods.

 

[bison]

Unless you're planning on running it really hard leave the springs alone for now. The rear main is an easy job and will take less than 2 hrs to complete. Use the 2 piece neoprene seal and seal the cap to the block with rtv. Use rtv on the sides of the cap. Just cut the plastic tip so that you can inject the rtv in the sides. Once you see it squeezing out the back between the cap and block all the way up the side you are gtg. The cork gaskets rjc sells work very well for the pan. I'd do the timing chain first and then go right to the rear main. It's easier to pull the timing cover with the oil pan unbolted.

 

[turbofabricator]

^^^^ What Bison said.

 

[87BLKGN]

How hard is it to pull one of these engines from the car. I was looking at it today trying to visually see how I would go about it, I think I'm alittle intimidated by it. I hosed the engine off and I can see on the front of the engine oil leaking from somewhere. Its almost like I should just pull it, replace all the gaskets, change the timing, valve springs, rear main & exhuast on the stand, then put it back in the car. I could even change the converter seal in the trans, No evidence I see on the ground that it leaking, but my luck when I remove the converter plastic shield, it probably is too. I don't know guys.

It looks like to remove the engine, I gotta start removing the intercooler, then move on to the downpipe, followed by the engine harness, tranny & converter bolts, then last is the motor mount bolts?
Im quite sure I'm wrong, and theres probably a million other items to remove, tuck away, etc to get this thing out. It does look like I can keep the exhuast manifolds on the engine if I take it out. This true?
Thanks again in advance for the help guys. I probably should leave the damn thing alone and keep driving it till something happens, guess since its winter, I feel I should be doing something more to it.

 

[Blazer406]

How hard is it to pull one of these engines from the car. I was looking at it today trying to visually see how I would go about it, I think I'm alittle intimidated by it. I hosed the engine off and I can see on the front of the engine oil leaking from somewhere. Its almost like I should just pull it, replace all the gaskets, change the timing, valve springs, rear main & exhuast on the stand, then put it back in the car. I could even change the converter seal in the trans, No evidence I see on the ground that it leaking, but my luck when I remove the converter plastic shield, it probably is too. I don't know guys.

It looks like to remove the engine, I gotta start removing the intercooler, then move on to the downpipe, followed by the engine harness, tranny & converter bolts, then last is the motor mount bolts?
Im quite sure I'm wrong, and theres probably a million other items to remove, tuck away, etc to get this thing out. It does look like I can keep the exhuast manifolds on the engine if I take it out. This true?
Thanks again in advance for the help guys. I probably should leave the damn thing alone and keep driving it till something happens, guess since its winter, I feel I should be doing something more to it.

You are on the right track....

I'll probably miss something.....but here is the jist of it....

1.) Disconnect battery
2.) take off intercooler and piping
3.) take off inlet piping
4.) unbolt/unhook alternator
5.) unbolt/unhook a/c compressor without removing a/c lines and lay over on drivers fender well and temporarily tie out of the way.
6.) unbolt p/s pump (2 bolts) and leave lines attached.....lay it over out of the way
7.) drain radiator and remove radiator hoses
8.) unhook coilpack connector and spark plug wires at the spark plugs - remove coilpack
9.) unhook ground wire on bottom of turbo bracket
10.) unhook ground wires on back of pass head
11.) unhook heater hoses at the heater core
12.) unhook 02 sensor wire, coolant temp sensors, IAC sensor, wastegate solenoid, cam and crank sensor, EGR valve, oil pressure switch, injector harness connector, and knock sensor
13.) unhook starter wires
14.) unhook crossover pipe
15.) unhook converter bolts
16.) remove bellhousing bolts
17.) unbolt motor mount bolts


Like I said.....I've probably left some steps out....but at this point you should be able to support the tranny and hook a hoist to the engine and lift it out........

 

[87BLKGN]

Well Guys After looking at the car and thinking about it, I've decided to pull the engine to fis all the gaskets, exhuast leaks, oil leaks, valve springs, timing chain and whatever else I find that needs attention. I fifure while I have it out. I'll clean up and paint the engine pieces back to factory colors to make the engine look new again. Somebody pray for me.

 

[~JM~]

Good luck. I was looking at what it takes to pull one of these engines & its a bit intimidating. Take several pictures of what you disassemble for later reference.

~JM~

 

[turb0buick57]

Hey All
I got a 87 GN, 79k miles on it now. Was a complete virgin when I got it a few months ago. I've been getting performance parts here and there for it and installing them. There is a few things with the car that are making me concerned and would like opinions on how to go about everything.

Just saw your post. A couple other turbobuick guys on here are from south of pgh. and in washington county. We normally go to a lot of cruises along rt 19 when the weather breaks as well as a couple visits to the track. Hope to see you at a cruise when they start back up. Im sure one of the guys will post in the north east section when cruise season comes around.

 

[87BLKGN]

alright guys, Motor is out and on the engine stand. My first time. It took me a total of 7hrs to have it out and on the stand. Im sure thats pretty bad, Now that its out, all this crap is goin though my head. My original plans were to change timing, valve springs, rear main seal, exhuast manifold gaskets, clean & paint parts and put it back together, then another side of me is saying, why don't we change the cam out, and lets replace the bearings, and lets do this & and that, to I'm contemplating tearing the whole thing down and redoing the entire engine, rings, bearings, etc. someone tell me to stop and just change what I started to do and forget it.

 

[~JM~]

How long can you stand having the car sitting apart? Wouldn't hurt to freshen it up while its on the stand. Sure beats pulling the engine again at a later date. Every time you pull an engine is a risk of injury, dents, scratches, etc.

~JM~

 

[Red C5]

Sounds like soon you'll be posting that you're starting a frame off

 

[Razor]

Ahh Pandora's box

If it was running good before you pulled it...Do the chain and springs.. dont touch the heads.. reseal it and drop it back in. Words of the wise

 

[turbofabricator]

Oh heck.......It's out. Buy a ready built big power engine and leave that one alone. Pickle it and save it for a later date. If your budget allows, why not do it right. You can even buy a complete aluminum engine and have a engine that makes more than 750 pump gas horsepower. But, then you'll also need a bullet proof trans, and rear end, then add a roll bar, and a MUST will be brakes, shocks, bushings, and other suspension parts. Bigger wheels and drag radials..........OH MAN! you just opened a BIG 'ol can of worms. So, first and most important question...........What is your working budget? That one question will tell me what you can and cannot do.

 

[87BLKGN]

Motor still on the stand. All tore down. Heads & cam still in it. I plan on doin an alky system on it. Like to have the car doing consistent low 12's all day long. Will the stock head gaskets do that without breaking a sweat? I wanted to do a compression check while it was in the car, but got to damn ahead of myself. Thinking of attempting to do one on the engine stand. Id like to get an idea of the numbers, to determine of leaving it be or keep goin. While it was a virgin car. It ran 14.32 @ 96mph. I would say it has to have good compression. Wasnt easy to turn over with the plugs in it. Dont have a big budget to do a full rebuild on this thing. But if it calls for it or possibly fail for me to reach my goals. Then it is what it is and i'll do it. Sorry for blabbin here. Im thinking out loud. Thanks guys

 

[turb0buick57]

Motor still on the stand. All tore down. Heads & cam still in it. I plan on doin an alky system on it. Like to have the car doing consistent low 12's all day long. Will the stock head gaskets do that without breaking a sweat? I wanted to do a compression check while it was in the car, but got to damn ahead of myself. Thinking of attempting to do one on the engine stand. Id like to get an idea of the numbers, to determine of leaving it be or keep goin. While it was a virgin car. It ran 14.32 @ 96mph. I would say it has to have good compression. Wasnt easy to turn over with the plugs in it. Dont have a big budget to do a full rebuild on this thing. But if it calls for it or possibly fail for me to reach my goals. Then it is what it is and i'll do it. Sorry for blabbin here. Im thinking out loud. Thanks guys

Sent you a pm,
If your just looking for low 12s the heads/gaskets should be fine. With the mods in your sig, drag radials, and alkycontrol you will be low 12s if your tune is good.