V8 vs V6
- Thread starter Fryguy
- Start date
Mike Licht
I was here first
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
I agree that putting a LS motor in one of these cars would not be my choice but the facts are the facts. An LS motor will make more power with stock parts (block, crank, and heads) They are cheaper to build and parts are way easier to find. All that being said I still love a V6 and the fun they bring, they are tryuly amazing but time has caught up with them.
Mike
Mike
I am glad that you do understand air flow. Most of those in last discussion did not.
Not necessarily cheaper. I think its about the same money. We are working on a car with a very tight budget to prove it.
How much money do you think it takes to run 9s in say 3500lb car with LS? Be Honest. Add total cost of job including cost of power plant. Dont include chassis and trans all cars need those items. Just the finished power plant. We hear cheaper but no one has ever put a dollar value on cheaper. What is Cheap?
I have multiple projects going, and have been setting aside parts for this thing for a while.
1. 80k mile aluminum LS1 short block for $200 that was fine except the valves had made marks on the pistons so they were nervous about it.
2. Shelf stock Diamond pistons (dished) for a very good deal, I think like $650 with rings.
3. A set of slightly used Eagle H-beam rods (6.125) for $275 off of the bullet.
4. A pair of low mileage 317 heads (exactly like ls6 castings except larger chambers) for $100 off motown muscle.
5. $550 CNC port job from livernois
6. LS6 intake for $300 from LS1tech.
I will have probably $950 on the cam, lifters, and springs. I will likely have about $500 into the mounts and oil pan. Machine work, bearings, rings, labor, etc might be another $1k.
That adds up to probably less than 5k for a piece that will honestly take 1000hp. Obviously there are plenty of misc expenses, like a $750 harness and $150 PCM, and of course Phil might charge a decent amount for the tuneup. But we're talking about a potential for 1000hp. That's a hell of a bargain in my book.
I built a mustang similar to this with an LS3 and recently sold it to do this GN project. That car was a lot of fun and made money every NO ET race this year. The LS engines are just damn good.
If I were doing a big budget car I do think it would be cooler to run the same times with the V6 though.
1. 80k mile aluminum LS1 short block for $200 that was fine except the valves had made marks on the pistons so they were nervous about it.
2. Shelf stock Diamond pistons (dished) for a very good deal, I think like $650 with rings.
3. A set of slightly used Eagle H-beam rods (6.125) for $275 off of the bullet.
4. A pair of low mileage 317 heads (exactly like ls6 castings except larger chambers) for $100 off motown muscle.
5. $550 CNC port job from livernois
6. LS6 intake for $300 from LS1tech.
I will have probably $950 on the cam, lifters, and springs. I will likely have about $500 into the mounts and oil pan. Machine work, bearings, rings, labor, etc might be another $1k.
That adds up to probably less than 5k for a piece that will honestly take 1000hp. Obviously there are plenty of misc expenses, like a $750 harness and $150 PCM, and of course Phil might charge a decent amount for the tuneup. But we're talking about a potential for 1000hp. That's a hell of a bargain in my book.
I built a mustang similar to this with an LS3 and recently sold it to do this GN project. That car was a lot of fun and made money every NO ET race this year. The LS engines are just damn good.
If I were doing a big budget car I do think it would be cooler to run the same times with the V6 though.
Agreed 100 %
I think of V8 TurboBuicks same as the guy that married the "community" girl. Everyone has done that:biggrin:
I don't really play with cars to impress other people. I do enjoy racing and the competition aspect of it. That in mind, I try and go as fast as possible for the budget I have. Yes, the V6 is cooler....but if I can go faster for the same dollar by going another way, it's worth it to me.
I bet that cheap ass engine I described above can spool up a 47/88 easily. I've gone 173mph @ 3200# with one of those turbos before on a 347 Ford. I wouldn't push this combo that hard, I'm just saying I know it would spool it easy..... and with the controller off making 6psi it would likely run on pump gas.
It's your car bud, I was joking around because of the lastest debate on the swap issue:biggrin: Enjoy it!
I hate it for the community as a whole but I also realize it just makes the value of my fleet go up a little everytime another bites the dust so...
The misc expense engine management, harness, fuel pump all combos have.
5K for a long block I think is a realistic number if you shop and you have shopped. Dont know that agree I with an engine that will handle 1000HP. I am thinking more like 750HP but we are splitting hairs to argue about it. The main thing here is you have no Turbo Buick drive train or any go fast goodies so you have nothing to work with as you are starting with nothing other than a rolling chassis I am assuming this from your post.
I hate it for the community as a whole but I also realize it just makes the value of my fleet go up a little everytime another bites the dust so...
I agree 100%
You're correct. The 1000hp number I got from three different friend's cars from around here in the past few years. All three of them were actually twin turbo systems, but I don't think that's relevant. Quickest one went 8.2x and 170+ at around 3300#, the other two were in the high 8s and between 155 and 165 I think. All were F-body cars. There are others who have claimed it around here, but I saw the actual parts and passes of these three cars and they were stock LS1 block, crank, and head castings.
The car I bought is already wired for a classic FAST for the V6, and even has a downpipe and exhaust so I'm still tempted because I'd really prefer the v6.
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
1000hp is on the low side. One local nitrous racer swapped to an LS based stock aluminum block, stock crank, upgraded rods and pistons, patriot heads, comp turbo cam kit. It was in a 3250# Mustang. Neat thing was basically no machine work involved at all when using the stock crank. Honed the cylinders, sized the rods to the crank. Less than $500 for the machine shop bill. I tuned the BS3 system on it. Car went 8.50 with an 80mm using the stock manifolds. That is over 1000hp. He had a local guy run some 2.5 tubing from the manifolds to the turbo. The V6 will net you 9.0's if you've really got your stuff together and it's a grenade with the pin pulled.
The stock block, crank of the LS is already proven to be durable well into the mid 8's at 3500#.
I'd say for mid 9's the V6 should be used. If someone wants high 8's the LS is the way to go. Otherwise break out the Stage 2 bank roll.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for Dusty and his experience. He would never B.S. anybody and his findings are spot on to what we have been working with as well. I was against anybody who even thought about doing a swap, but after working with the LS Regal and getting feedback from people out on the street, for the most part NOBODY CARES if it's a V8 or V6 except the very few like us, they respect and fear the car itself. A V8 LSx is a better investment with more return than the V6 today and it will be even more in the future. Like it or not.
Mike Licht
I was here first
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
I am a little fuzzy on this thread so I have a question. Are we talking V8 vs V6 in ANY car or just that no one should cup up a nice Turbo Buick to put in a V8, 2 different things IMO. I would hate to see many more of these cars get destroyed, of couse once it has a roll cage and that sort of thing I am not sure it matters. There is so many G body cars that can be bought right that will do the same thing.
Mike
Mike
I am talking about cutting up a Turbo Buick...
Your right about the other G bodies. All though NONE are as hot as the Buick though
Shane Stacks SS Monte Carlo comes to mind when talking about badazz Gbodies!
I am talking about cutting up a Turbo Buick...
Your right about the other G bodies. All though NONE are as hot as the Buick though
Shane Stacks SS Monte Carlo comes to mind when talking about badazz Gbodies!
The turbo buick is by far the coolest G-body out there. The other ones can be built nice too, but nothing is as cool or mean looking as a black GN, IMO.
The thread was just a general question for turbo buicks, but I'm trying to make the decision for my personal car, which is already "butchered" with a cage and ladder bars. It will be very straight and very black when it's done though.
We're even considering putting some small twins on it with the LS since it's a butchered car anyhow.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
Shane, Just because someone puts in a V8 and sets the V6 aside I don't see it as another one bites the dust. The V6 can easily be put back in and no one would never know the difference.I hate it for the community as a whole but I also realize it just makes the value of my fleet go up a little everytime another bites the dust so...
I feel the same you about another one bites the dust when I see all these GN's & TR's with Notched frame rails, Cages, Tubs, A/C missing, Shaved this, Shaved that.. Don't people think that all that crap devalues these cars just as bad as a V8 in one? Hell with all the engines for sale it would be cheap and simple to put the V6 back in. You can't say the same with some of the other Hacking that has been done to some of these cars!
People here seem to over look all the other things done to these cars that devalue them worse than a engine swap. Take some time and look back at all the REAL GN's & TR's in the past and even today that have been completely hacked up for drag racing, it's astonishing!
My thinking on this whole issue is this, If your car was already hacked up to make it a all out drag car the V8 swap isn't going to devalue the car any worse than it already is. Plus it is your car to do whatever you wish with.
This is also what I have noticed over the past few years why maybe some are switching over. (this refers to the (109) 9 sec capable cars people are referring to).
1) V6 Build Costs
2) V6 reputable Builders (Can pretty much count them on one hand)
3) V6 Build times
4) V6 Part availability
5) V6 Part costs to build the engine
SW.
I don't understand why you guys are so worried about "de-valuing" the car?
In my opinion, the tubs help, I can get the car low and give it the perfect stance. The cage helps, I can go fast and crash and still go home to my family. The V8 helps for the reasons listed in this thread.
I once saw a quote....I don't remember it exactly so I will paraphrase it:
"Not modifying your car to retain its value is like not having much sex with a woman so her next man will appreciate it more."
In my opinion, the tubs help, I can get the car low and give it the perfect stance. The cage helps, I can go fast and crash and still go home to my family. The V8 helps for the reasons listed in this thread.
I once saw a quote....I don't remember it exactly so I will paraphrase it:
"Not modifying your car to retain its value is like not having much sex with a woman so her next man will appreciate it more."
