Turbo Buicks vs LS1's help me out

[ONEquickGN]

I do not need any help in the quickness or horsepower department. You buick guys already won me over a long time ago!!! The question is....which car is more reliable? Sure, 87 Grand Nationals are 15 years old and they are a pain to tune a lot of times, but aint that about it!! I've heard and read about a few of these long blocks throwing a rod here or there but nothing major. The LS1's seem to fall apart really easily!! Faulty rear ends that cannot support even factory horsepower and torque levels...WTF!!! Oil consumption, pinging, and knocking is a common problem for a lot of LS1's. Also, if I were gonna get me a LS1, I'd get me a M6 which means I'll have to be constantly replacing clutches since they are crap. I've got the impression that other than being old 86-87 turbo buicks would be a better bet for a daily driver.... or am I dead wrong!!! Please help me out guys because I LOVE these cars but am a little hesitant in buying a car this old espeically since its going to be my only car and will be driven daily!! If I would buy a LS1 it'd have around 30-40K miles on it. If I buy a 1987 Grand National which I'm 99% sure I will it'll prob have around 30K miles on it and be in show condition! Whichever car I get will NEVER see the track but maybe 1 or 2 times, but will see street action all the time Please guys give me some feedback on this so I can feel pretty solid behind my choice....whichever choice I might make.

 

[Sinful6]

Well, if it were me, and you have a budget for LS1's, I would get a supra IMHO its the best of both worlds, and damn near bulletproof!

 

[donZ]

i have both of them, 98 ram air ta and 87 gn
it all depends, on what you like.
the ls1 are coming down in price, i think the ls1 is one of the best
v8, gm EVER made, with a few bolt on's you can run in the 12's all day long, on 93 gas,
But i like the way the gn drive , alot better, more interior room.

i don't think you can go wrong, with either car.
good luck.

 

[Joe 1320]

IMHO, most any newer car will be more reliable than a 15 year old car. The use also has a huge impact on reliability. My WS6 just turned 105K miles. The only thing that went south of any real consequence is the transmission. I also run the heck out of the car, but change the oil with mobile 1 synthetic every 2500 miles. That is my daily driver. That's not saying that a TR is unreliable, just when they are 15 years old you have to expect alot of little problems to pop up that you don't normally see in new cars. The bottom line is that if you race anything, expect to be fixing it.

 

[turbojimmy]

For a daily driver, I'd get a new TA WS-6 with the 0% financing (ends today) and the 3/36k warranty. I love my Buick, but for a trouble-free daily driver, you can't beat a new car - any new car.

My dad has a '99 SS, my brother had a '99 Z28 that he just traded in for an '02 WS-6 T/A. The LS1 F-bodies are an absolutely awesome combination of things. My brother's new car is the Navy Blue Metallic, which has a chameleon affect - sometimes purple, sometimes black, sometimes blue/green. Power everything, Hurst 6-speed, etc. and so on. It's an awesome car to drive everyday. I wouldn't sell my GN for one, but if I could have both I would.

My brother pulled up yesterday and my wife said "I want a ride". If you knew my wife, you'd know how unusual this is. She absolutely loves that T/A. We went for a cruise and she really digs it. She likes the T-tops. I said "GN's got t-tops", but she said the GN is just plain evil....primitive. The TA is really mean looking (especially the WS-6) but has a lot of comfort and sophistication.

Plus, you'll never be able to buy a new LS1 F-body again. If/when they bring the Camaro and Firebird badges back they're gonna be completely different.

Just my .02 (and then some).

Jim

 

[GNSCOTT]

why not geta 9" or 12 bolt rear for the LS1?? My WS6 is very reliable and more comfortable to drive. Driving the GN is work compared to the TA. I don't hear too many LS1's driving over the crank or throwing rods either, my piston slap on the TA seems to have no ill effects yet.

 

[6=8]

Sinful6: I'm not one to flame here, but I've never seen any example of import cars being "Bulletproof". Get off it already! Besides the fact we should all be attempting to keep our money in our country (or at least in North America)

All things being equal, say GN’s were new today and compared to a new LS1, I would think the GN might have the edge. But comparing a 16-year-old car to a newer LS1 equipped car can’t be done realistically, even with comparable mileage.

If you looking for a daily driver, I don’t think a 15-16 year old car would be my first choice. Not only are the likely hoods of a part failure greater, you also have to contend with paint, weather-stripping, upholstery, parts availability, service (Including AC, trans, brakes, smog, and so on.) and many “Wear” issues that you probably do not have to deal with on a newer car. There are many “Former” GN owners that feel the same way you apparently feel about the LS1 from a reliability standpoint. (And I know a few former POS Supra owners that didn’t find them very reliable at staying together either.) GN’s may require specialty service too… finding a place that knows how to work on these cars is a challenge in itself!

Mechanically, the GN may have an advantage being a low compression engine for around town driving, which may give it an edge in the longevity area. But, if you are anything like me, you will push it harder just because you can. And its fun! Stressing things a littler harder than the average car.

So, If your goal it to have fast street car, with little or no track duty, I would think it boils down to how much you like turning the wrench yourself. Both are 13-14 second capable cars “Stock”, but a “Street” GN can get to the 12’s and lower without cracking open the engine (And affordable if you bolt the parts on yourself.) I don’t know if this is possible on the LS1, but I’m sure it’s possible.

I think that if you are the “Hands On” type of driver that actually (Sort of) enjoys when a part lets go because it gives you the justification for taking the day off to fix your car while making some upgrades at the same time, the GN is for you. If you are more the “Keep my hands clean and take it in” kind of driver, get the LS1 (Especially if you can get an extended Warrantee!)

You beat on anything long enough, it will break. So far, my Buick is still holding in there!

 

[bishir]

Well my 69 Mustang was my daily driver until I bought my GN. To me the GN is reliable and comforable! It's got ice cold air, runs great, and is fun to drive. I don't think you'll have many problems is you buy a mint 30k car. Thats about what I did except mine had 49K miles. Just think about the resell value! Then its the GN hands down!

 

[salvageV6]

Buick.

Now where's that pesky moderator....

 

[Sinful6]

I am going to have say the MKIV Supra is the GN of the '90s(performance-wise). It has incredable potential, and responds better to mods then anything I've seen before. And it's not uncommon to see 9s 1/4's with a Supra on STOCK internals! I don't know what you meant about that "keep money in north america" thing, but all I can say is from 1993-1998 Toyota dealerships stocked these cars in america...They only real drawback to these cars is price...

Check out these forums:http://www.supraforums.com/ and educate yo'self!

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

daily ride- buy a S-10 pickup and keep the turbo regal in the garage so its nice and clean all the time-

if your in college, dont waste all your money on your car, buy something reliable and DONT MODIFY IT!!

not everyone can have a fast car and support the habbit when your spending all the time in school-

unless your parents are buying you one, then get something that you like-

HTH

 

[GNSCOTT]

Supras are hard as hell to get a loan for, especially for the prices they are asking, and used car loans will limit you back to i beleive 1997, and the 97,98 Supras are very expensive.

 

[tc86gn]

I have a 2002 WS6 with an auto, It is Black. Looks best in this color.(wifes car really) Ever since I got my Gn up and running, I can't keep her out of my car! Uses the excuse that it has a trunk and easy for shopping. My 82 chevy 1/2 ton is my daily driver to work.
This Supra talk is driving me crazy. 9's??? with no internal mods??? with a standard??? I would have to see it to believe it.
Even if it is, it is still Jap Crap that runs 9's.

 

[86brick]

MKIV Turbo Supras...

The MKIV Turbo Supras are great performance cars and they probably have the strongest factory short block ever made, but the cost to make them run better than 12's and 11's with the factory twins is crazy!!! A good single turbo kit will cost you around $5K-$7K and then once you go single and are making around 450-500rwhp the fuel system will have to be upgraded which will cost you $2K and this is after you spend $3K-$4K on all the BPUs (Basic Performance Upgrades) like exhaust, DP, BC, cam gears, etc... Also, from what I've heard the autos (I would want an auto cause I'm a drag racer) don't hold up to well once your in the 10's and it seems like most are going to domestic trannies like the TH400, TH350, AOD, and I've even seen a couple with 2-speed power glides.... And last but not least the factory IRS on the MKIV Supras makes launching and getting a decent 60' time a serious PITA as I've witnessed when one down here ran a 11.09 @142mph (can you say traction limited)!!! I like them a lot, but they are very expensive to make faster than 12's and 11's and if you don't believe me ask yourself how many BPUs with the stock twins are running around compared to the single turbo guys that are running faster than 12's and 11's!!!

 

[matt87]

the supra is a rich brat, big baller drug dealer, or old rich dudes car. the ls1 is an awsome platform and very well rounded even stock. yes it has a few vices but what car doesnt. the gn was the pace setter back when and is still a potent package. once you get it running right it can be a very good daily driver. as a side note i went for a ride in my friends 11.70 90 lx stange. its all motor and has a cage. this is his daily driver. i couldnt even fathom driving this car daily, its loud, has a cage, rides like poo. i have raced him and won, my car has air, rides like a caddy and has no cage. a true street car thats can be lived with.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Re: MKIV Turbo Supras...

Originally posted by 86brick
The MKIV Turbo Supras are great performance cars and they probably have the strongest factory short block ever made, but the cost to make them run better than 12's and 11's with the factory twins is crazy!!!

not true-

a friend of mine has a newer supra with the stock twin turbos, stock fuel system, and has MINIMAL MODS-

such as vpc,down pipe, front mount, egt, and et streets-

the car's best WITHOUT NITROUS is 11.20's at 126 around 20 psi of boost-

so actually its comparable to the turbo regal to make go fast without alot of bs parts-

HTH

 

[John B]

Have the best of both worlds.....that's what I did.....check this GN killer in sheep's clothing

 

[ONEquickGN]

guys....Supras are AWESOME cars but its a bit expensive and just aint for me and this thread aint about supras!!!!!! NOW thats just great....just when I thought I had my mind all set on a Grand National you guys have to bring back the memories of me test driving Z28's and WS-6 chirping the tires at 75 mph. Guys why did you do this to me !!!! haha just kidding. Lets say I'm still kinda leaning towards the GN but not nearly as much as I was earlier. Its just that both cars are SO badass and both of them are SO different. The only thing they have in common is they are FAST cars. I'll tell you this... I LOVE driving a manual trans so thats one thing I'll enjoy if i bought a LS1 but man..... boy just feeling that turbo spool up dont compare to anything!! Please keep the comments coming because its helping me make a very important decision. Its very nice to run 93 pump gas in a LS1 and not having to worry about a bad case of gas or a over boost situation but anyways its GOD expensive to get a LS1 in the high 11's in street trim!!

 

[JToups386]

Originally posted by tc86gn
I have a 2002 WS6 with an auto, It is Black. Looks best in this color.(wifes car really) Ever since I got my Gn up and running, I can't keep her out of my car! Uses the excuse that it has a trunk and easy for shopping. My 82 chevy 1/2 ton is my daily driver to work.
This Supra talk is driving me crazy. 9's??? with no internal mods??? with a standard??? I would have to see it to believe it.
Even if it is, it is still Jap Crap that runs 9's.

This thread has gone astray, but, I have to affirm for some of you, that the talk about the Supra's is true. I've seen (in person) many of them chassis dyno at 800+ rwhp at Motorsport Technologies here in Houston, where I spend most Saturday afternoons. I was amazed! The guys that own these cars have the same tight family environment that the Buick TR crowd shares, and they all learn from each other and apply it to their cars. Toyota way over engineered the bottom ends on those cars, and I've seen them hold up to as much as 875 rwhp. No need to get defensive! Just respect them for what they've done.
As for the original issue here; I got tired of daily driving my Turbo T and GN, since something was always failing. It's not a design flaw, but merely the affect of wear & tear over time. I chose to buy a 99 LS1 Z28 and I couldn't be happier! I love my GN, and have chosen it to be my weapon of choice at the track and any heavy street racing, but, I also love having a factory warranty for 5/75 and running 12.50's at 109mph on pump gas with my daily driven LS1. I truly feel the LS1 F-body is what the GN's were in their day of production. Technology is a wonderful thing! And as for reliability, your original query is very inaccurate! The problems you have listed hearing about are from various external factors, ie, adding nitrous, or chunking rear-ends by trying to do 5000rpm clutch dumps at the track. As mentioned above, I spend alot of time at MTI (a premier LS1 shop), and have seen everything there is to see pertaining to these cars and their problems. The only real issues I've seen are usually due to driver/owner greed in trying to abuse them for power. I've had my tranny replaced, but, it was under warranty, and it was due to a freakish pin failure.
Take it for what it's worth... Drive the LS1, and race the Buick!

 

[Devil Car]

Turbo Buicks make awesome daily drivers. I used my GN as a daily driver for over 3 years (drove it for part of my high school years and even a year in college), but I couldn't keep it in my possession. I don't know where you're from, but out here these cars must be kept under constant supervision. That's why I now degrade myself by driving a crappy car to school and work, while keeping my GN locked up in the garage.

As for the LS1's, they are fun cars to drive. Everytime I borrow my Dad's, I wish that I could own one of them too. They're easy to drive in traffic (even the M6), get decent gas mileage, and have killer a/c too. If I were choosing one of the two as a daily driver, I'd get a Z28 while I still could, and have a GN to drive on the weekends and for race duty.

JMHO

-Craig