turbo 400 ????

[INTHEEIGHTS]

What are some of the things that a turbo 400 should have done if your gonna drive it on street and handle 850 + Hp. Im gonna try my own rebuild.I bought a good tear down manual.
1 pa bell 400 to 4.6 mod
2 reverse valve body ???? whos
3 36 elm sprg
4 redline clutchs
5 steels ???????? whos
6 Dusty/PTC converter
7 rebuild kit whos
8 anything else please add
Thanks

 

[John Wilde]

What are some of the things that a turbo 400 should have done if your gonna drive it on street and handle 850 + Hp. Im gonna try my own rebuild.I bought a good tear down manual.
1 pa bell 400 to 4.6 mod
2 reverse valve body ???? whos
3 36 elm sprg
4 redline clutchs
5 steels ???????? whos
6 Dusty/PTC converter
7 rebuild kit whos
8 anything else please add
Thanks

I need to call you, wish you were closer I have a 400.

 

[quickt]

1) JW nicer fit
2) Griner G10
3) Waste of money
4) Hi energy BW
5) anyones
7) any one that sells paper rubber seal kit
8) nothing else really needed. Lots of cool stuff that would be used for much Higher HP

 

[Alky V6]

I have to disagree on the 36 element sprag. It is a very good upgrade. I was flipping 34 element sprags every 1 to 3 passes. After changing out the direct drum for the 4th time, I switched to the 36 setup. Intermediate sprag problems have disappeared. And yes, the drum has always been stabilized.

I use the Hughes reverse pattern w/transbrake. Reaction time is perfect for my application.

 

[Otto J]

I have to disagree on the 36 element sprag. It is a very good upgrade. I was flipping 34 element sprags every 1 to 3 passes. After changing out the direct drum for the 4th time, I switched to the 36 setup. Intermediate sprag problems have disappeared. And yes, the drum has always been stabilized.

I use the Hughes reverse pattern w/transbrake. Reaction time is perfect for my application.

Lonnie builds them without sprags,thats why they are not needed.

 

[quickt]

I have to disagree on the 36 element sprag. It is a very good upgrade. I was flipping 34 element sprags every 1 to 3 passes. After changing out the direct drum for the 4th time, I switched to the 36 setup. Intermediate sprag problems have disappeared. And yes, the drum has always been stabilized.

I use the Hughes reverse pattern w/transbrake. Reaction time is perfect for my application.

For what you spent on the 36 element drum and your VB you could have been spragless. $600 for steel and $1000 for aluminum just for a drum that can still fail. Anyway for the HP listed I dont think he needs either spragless or super sprag. I think with the proper drum work he can use the roller clutch if he wanted to.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

In my opinion the 36 element sprag is a huge waste of money. I would have been better off spending those one thousand dollars on jewelry for my wife or beer for my garage.

I say this because the (mega dollar) 36 element super sprag with Billet aluminum direct drum failed in my turbo 400. Over one thousand dollars down the drain. After researching this I started to learn I am not the only one that has had this problem. I am saying that there is not a sprag out there that can handle the 1 – 2 shift in a turbo 400. The sprag of any kind is definitely the weakest link in any turbo 400.

This failure occurred on our car which is powered by a stock block 109. The super sprag is definitely not the best thing out there.

 

[Alky V6]

In my opinion the 36 element sprag is a huge waste of money. I would have been better off spending those one thousand dollars on jewelry for my wife or beer for my garage.

I say this because the (mega dollar) 36 element super sprag with Billet aluminum direct drum failed in my turbo 400. Over one thousand dollars down the drain. After researching this I started to learn I am not the only one that has had this problem. I am saying that there is not a sprag out there that can handle the 1 – 2 shift in a turbo 400. The sprag of any kind is definitely the weakest link in any turbo 400.

This failure occurred on our car which is powered by a stock block 109. The super sprag is definitely not the best thing out there.

Is the failure mainly associated with the aluminum drum? I can see that happening. I use the steel drum. I didn't trust the aluminum drum to be able to hold up. Probably snapped off or deformed the nose of the drum where the inner race locates, right? All I can say about my experience is, it works. I've PMed the trans a few times since installing it and it's showing practically no wear. Amazing for a sprag. The wear that is there is the type you'd expect from a normal commuter application. In a high performance application, usually you'd find dent marks on the races from spike loading, but not with the 36. At least mine, anyway.

It's got to be good for something. I went from flipping the sprag almost immediately to no worries and so far, a complete season. I'm going to PM the trans again. I'll report if I find anything funny.

Maybe my way of stabilizing the direct drum has something to do with it?

I also run a very low stall T/C which puts even more demand on the sprag.

 

[chris718]

in the 8s,contact me .i can set you up quick and easy with all the items you need as well as any technical information you need for the combination.631 218 1989

 

[chris718]

check out this link www.CKPerformance.com www.CKPerformance.com www.CKPerformance.com

 

[INTHEEIGHTS]

1) JW nicer fit
2) Griner G10
3) Waste of money
4) Hi energy BW
5) anyones
7) any one that sells paper rubber seal kit
8) nothing else really needed. Lots of cool stuff that would be used for much Higher HP

Any idea of what those parts cost + or -. THanks

 

[INTHEEIGHTS]

in the 8s,contact me .i can set you up quick and easy with all the items you need as well as any technical information you need for the combination.631 218 1989

I called you were gone.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

Is the failure mainly associated with the aluminum drum? I can see that happening. I use the steel drum. I didn't trust the aluminum drum to be able to hold up. Probably snapped off or deformed the nose of the drum where the inner race locates, right?

Maybe my way of stabilizing the direct drum has something to do with it?

All the tricks were done to support my super sprag. My 7075 Billet aluminum direct drum did not snap or crack apart. In my opinion the heavy duty aluminum drum actually retained all of the components and kept parts from exploding the top of the case off. I have seen other transmissions with the 34 element sprag and steel direct drum explode and take the whole top of the case with it. (Thank goodness for trans blankets). I have no experience with a 36 element sprag on a steel drum like you are using.

Another advantage to using the aluminum drum, is it is much lighter. This means there is less rotating mass to be stopped when applying second gear. This increases the life expectancy of the Sprag because it decreases the forces being applied to it.

In my situation the sprag over spun and lived the last of its life when the ring and pinion snapped on the starting line at Reynolds. It is very disappointing for me to see a thousand dollar part get runiened.

The 36 element sprag did not work out for me, It may for others . I am just stating that I feel like I wasted my money on that sprag because it is junk now.

In my opinion Extreme automatics has a much better solution to the problem.

I am moving on and going with a spagless transmission. I would be dollars ahead had I gone that route originally.

 

[Alky V6]

Sam. I'm really interested in seeing the exact failure with your super sprag setup. Can you post some pics? Was it the drum, sprag or races that failed?

I understand all the advantages of using the aluminum drum. I just wanted to see some reports from other people first, before I laid out the money for one.

 

[chris718]

All of the spragless valve bodies I ever used from griner years back all had a bind up on the 2/3 shift and poor direct clutch life.This is because the design regressed back to knocking off a clutch and applying another during a shift.It always creates a wear issue,as well as shift timing issues.The th 400 was built as a stack shift unit.This was part of its attractive usage.Also with the spragless you have to drag the sprag race and clutches with the drum in hi gear instead of them sitting stationary when the sprag overruns in hi gear.And your still feeding high gear thru the direct passage in the case.There are more efficient ways of doing it.My reworked stocker casting is slowly stamping out the alumnum style.

 

[quickt]

Hi Chris,
You might want to let World Champion Mark Micke know that the spragless 400 does not work. He has only went 6.25@230mph +. The Whole race season with no major issue with clutches or VB. The car is so predictable you could race bracket with it.

 

[Otto J]

Dave Fiscus' trans is a few years old also,havent heard of his having any problems either.

 

[chris718]

Regardless of what is being done now,we ran into those problems.I even called Steve and he was aware of the problem.Steve is a very brilliant individual .Maybe he has corrected it?By then we were having excellent results with our sprag and drum and valve body so we abandoned the Griner stuff.There inefficiencies associated with the sprag race ,and clutches not overrunning are real .

 

[quickt]

Sam. I'm really interested in seeing the exact failure with your super sprag setup. Can you post some pics? Was it the drum, sprag or races that failed?

I understand all the advantages of using the aluminum drum. I just wanted to see some reports from other people first, before I laid out the money for one.

Hi Don,
The main problem with Sam's super sprag was the result of an over speed of the direct drum. The aluminum drum itself made it out without an issue. Never the less $1000 super sprag bit the dust. Had it been a cast unit it would have exited the case. Bottom line if it had been a spragless drum there would have been no sprag to damage. The clucthes just would have went round and round with the race dragging in the steels. Come to think of it with all that drag it might have slowed the drum down.

INTHEEIGHTS sorry for the little hijack of your thread. At least maybe there is some good info for you.

 

[quickt]

Regardless of what is being done now,we ran into those problems.I even called Steve and he was aware of the problem.Steve is a very brilliant individual .Maybe he has corrected it?By then we were having excellent results with our sprag and drum and valve body so we abandoned the Griner stuff.There inefficiencies associated with the sprag race ,and clutches not overrunning are real .

The Old monster truck VB that was used years ago is nothing like is being used today. Apples and Oranges. Wait till you see what we debut this spring. There is nothing in the TH400 Transmission Industry like it. Look out Rossler