Being newish to the GN world, Ive owned my 86 for 8 months, I went through all the info on GN /TTYPE and tried to get an Idea of what parts I needed to run 11.50. So now I have what I thought would be plenty, not so. Not to say others haven't done it but I can't. I wan't to run those ET's with no more than 20psi. So after reading more posts on here I have come up with a new batch of things I need. Trans + and 4"ls1 MAF big inj, I would like to just get 160's because I can get them cheap but I don't know if a good drivable chip being made for them. So it's 72's or 55's. I know some will think this is overkill but my 009's are going sonic with anything over 19psi. Using c-116 or c-123 I am still getting 19 deg of kn as soon as I lift of the brake under boost,but goes down to 1.5 to 2 by the top of 2nd. As I get to 4000 in 3rd O2's are 715 or worse. I am also planning to build my own very large horizontal mount intercooler , due to the heat gere in AZ a front mount makes the car run to hot. Also after reading some posts from Bruce, Does any know how he get's a blow through MAF to work, or where to Buy one? So lets here it Guys What do you think, are these Good Ideas or am I barking up the wrong tree, THX
Trans + and big inj,55 ,72, 160's
- Thread starter clean86
- Start date
FLAME SUIT IS ON AND READY!!
If you want to run 11.50 and only want to use 20# of boost to do so, then you're right, you're short on a couple of issues.
You need more turbo, AND you need more injector.
My advice would be to run something close to a TE45/TE63 type turbo, and no less than the 55's. 72's can be made to be quite streetable with the Translator/Extender combination, but you don't need the 4" MAF. The stock LS1 3.5" should be more than enough!
Also the ECM will need to be modded for the bigger injectors.
Of course with the bigger turbo you verly likely will be looking at more stall on the converter.
One thing leads to another.
Sounds like you've got everything else covered.
Didn't hear much about your 60's. Are they in the 1.5's or very very low 1.6's? They'll need to be to run the numbers you want.
If you want to run 11.50 and only want to use 20# of boost to do so, then you're right, you're short on a couple of issues.
You need more turbo, AND you need more injector.
My advice would be to run something close to a TE45/TE63 type turbo, and no less than the 55's. 72's can be made to be quite streetable with the Translator/Extender combination, but you don't need the 4" MAF. The stock LS1 3.5" should be more than enough!
Also the ECM will need to be modded for the bigger injectors.
Of course with the bigger turbo you verly likely will be looking at more stall on the converter.
One thing leads to another.
Sounds like you've got everything else covered.
Didn't hear much about your 60's. Are they in the 1.5's or very very low 1.6's? They'll need to be to run the numbers you want.
For relocating the MAF, go here.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/mafrelocate.html
You can use the stock T+ and Extender stuff just fine.
I've gotten emails from a few guys that have done it, and I tune on 3 around here with it. I have one based lined, so next time tuning, we'll be able to get a before and after.
First off I haven't done a cal for 72s, but in looking at my 55 data, 72 shouldn't be a problem. The hitch is Pulse Widths at idle, you just have a min time that you can pulse an injector or it gets erratic. Going static or not enough PW at idle generate the same problems.
Why the 20 PSI limit?.
Boost doesn't hurt an enigne, poor tuning does, well, up until you reach the structual limits of the engine. It's going to take X HP to run your 11.5s, limiting boost, just ties your hands in what's available.
Where you going to put this horizontial I/C?.
clean86,
I am at 11.12@123 with 22psi with a Trans+, Extender, 3.5"LS1, MSD50's, ONE Walbro 340 pump hot wired, TA63, 9.5" Vigilante, V4 stock location intercooler, p&p heads and intake, RJC Power Plate, 62MM stock throttle body/plenum, etc. etc. If I would have turned the boost down to 20, the car would have went about 11.40.
50's are enough, 3.5"LS1 sensor is enough, if you want to go fast with less boost, you need a big turbo (and of course a loose convertor).
I am at 11.12@123 with 22psi with a Trans+, Extender, 3.5"LS1, MSD50's, ONE Walbro 340 pump hot wired, TA63, 9.5" Vigilante, V4 stock location intercooler, p&p heads and intake, RJC Power Plate, 62MM stock throttle body/plenum, etc. etc. If I would have turned the boost down to 20, the car would have went about 11.40.
50's are enough, 3.5"LS1 sensor is enough, if you want to go fast with less boost, you need a big turbo (and of course a loose convertor).
I may be outta my range here but ported heads! I have heard that ported head swill allow you to run lower boost and the same numbers on the board. Porting the heads allows you to get more air into the chamber which means you do need larger injectors. I ported mine myself but after seeing the article in GMHTP and seeing the heads first hand, I will be going with either Jacks heads or getting mine done.
Just my .02
Just my .02
Hey Guy's I'm back ,been out of town. Thx for the ideas, Hey Bruce I am staying under 20psi due to the fact that I don't want to see what the top of my cross member looks loke any time soon. I know it's a tuning issue not a boost issue but I don't wan't to let the air out of this one. The intercooler will be mounted where the stock cooler is now, but from frame rail to rail. I am leaving again for one more work trip thurs, and will be back in a week. I should have it done shortly after that ,I'll keep you posted if your interisted.
First of all, 12.6 with 009's over 100% is a problem. Your car is either making the HP and not putting it to the ground, or VERY inefficient. Your car as it sits should be very capable of mid 11's. I think you should work on optimizing your present combo. Larger injectors are a good idea, but believe you still have tuning to do with what you got.
Ok I am finally home, work sucks! I will start my intercooler install in the next couple of days. I will also order my T + and pieces to install Maf in the up pipe. Jim , I also think I still have tuning to do. The thing that bothers me the most is the lack of MPH. I would think with 20lbs The mph should be higher than 108, I am hoping the heat has a lot to do with it ,101 at time of pass. It is now getting down into the low 60's so I am going out this weekend and trying again.Thx for all the info guy's it really helps.
Turbojorge
Unstoppable
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2001
I Agree with that Testa Guy. Why go to the next step when you haven't used up all you can from your current combo? You deffinatly have enough to go 11.50's with what you have. Running boost should be no problem with your portted heads and Intake.
Try 22psi and get the car to hook (easier said than done right) . You should easily be in the 11's.
Just my .02
Why go to the next step when you haven't used up all you can from your current combo? You deffinatly have enough to go 11.50's with what you have. Running boost should be no problem with your portted heads and Intake. Try 22psi and get the car to hook (easier said than done right) . You should easily be in the 11's.
Just my .02
I think you need to not buy new parts and work on tuning your existing parts if you want to run mid 11's. I went 10.95 at a mere 24PSI boost with 50's so you prob have enough injector although you may want to go to 50's sometime. No need for 55's and modified ECM unless you goal is below the high 10's.
I don't understand why people say you need more injector at all.
We went 11.7 in my dad's car with a TE-44 (smaller turbo than you have) and 36# injecters (also smaller) and stock heads.
What chip are you using??
What is your fuel pressure w/ vacumn off??
Have you checked to make sure your fuel pressure isn't dropping off?
When you say your 009s are "going sonic" what does that mean? Are you running them at over 100% DC or are you even able to determine that? Or are you just assuming since you have .715 O2 MV that they are maxed out?
The 60 is a great streetable turbo. Anything bigger than that will also require a torque converter change as well or the lag will kil ya.
I think spending $250 for DS may pick up your speed and ET more than anything else. You have plenty to run 11.50 now.. properly tuned that is.
Sully
I don't understand why people say you need more injector at all.
We went 11.7 in my dad's car with a TE-44 (smaller turbo than you have) and 36# injecters (also smaller) and stock heads.
What chip are you using??
What is your fuel pressure w/ vacumn off??
Have you checked to make sure your fuel pressure isn't dropping off?
When you say your 009s are "going sonic" what does that mean? Are you running them at over 100% DC or are you even able to determine that? Or are you just assuming since you have .715 O2 MV that they are maxed out?
The 60 is a great streetable turbo. Anything bigger than that will also require a torque converter change as well or the lag will kil ya.
I think spending $250 for DS may pick up your speed and ET more than anything else. You have plenty to run 11.50 now.. properly tuned that is.
Sully
I havn't had the car out in a couple of months. Last out it was over a 101 so I am sure thathas somthing to do with it. I have done all the spring cleaning, as well as a fresh motor. The reason I think the 009's are done is that my egt's are good,fuel pres is holding strong at a 1 to 1 ramp, and my o2's suck! If I keep my boost down to 15 to 18 my o2's stay 750- 815 if I turn it up to 24 the o2's take a dive , and that was with c-123 and a new o2. I am taking it out tonight now that is getting into the 60's at night. I am hoping to at least get the mph needed , 115 or so. I am also getting my PS intercooler tonight and will fab up the mounts to horizontal mount it next week. o-ya fuel press is 45 line off, converter is a 9"3200 n/lu. Any other ideas guy's thx!!!!
Turbojorge
Unstoppable
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2001
Who's chip are you running? Race or street? If it's an RA chip, I recommend changing it and trying somebody elses before you move on to bigger injectors.
Jim Testa make really good chips for 009's. Can't beat the price either. Won't hurt to give em a shot.
Good luck.
Jim Testa make really good chips for 009's. Can't beat the price either. Won't hurt to give em a shot.
Good luck.
Ok guy's I took the car out tonight and it responded well to the better air, 12.3 at 110 with 18psi and a 1.77 60. I was very happy considering it was still in the 70's so it should stick it's nose in the 11's with a little better air and some rear susp. work. thought I would let you know. Also thx Jack and Nick c-ya
Turbojorge
Unstoppable
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2001
Well thats better. I can't wait till it gets that cool out here. (90's right now)
What happen to the 20 psi max thing? You'll deffinatly hit the 11's now with 20psi IMO.
Your 60' wasn't that bad at all.
What happen to the 20 psi max thing? You'll deffinatly hit the 11's now with 20psi IMO.
Your 60' wasn't that bad at all.
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