Titanium valves
- Thread starter jamesmac
- Start date
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001
James,
I had this same question myself when I wanted to run titanium valves on the street. I spoke to several engine builders and got conflicting opinions. There seems to be very little first hand knowledge that would pertain to our application ie; turbocharged street motors with titanium valves.
I decided to call Ken Duttweiler and get his input. The Readers Digest version is basically that you wouldn't want to run titanium valves in say an turbo endurance (road race) application but drag racing should be fine. He ended by saying "If you've got 'em run 'em but if not don't spend the money".
I hope this makes sense.
Neal
I had this same question myself when I wanted to run titanium valves on the street. I spoke to several engine builders and got conflicting opinions. There seems to be very little first hand knowledge that would pertain to our application ie; turbocharged street motors with titanium valves.
I decided to call Ken Duttweiler and get his input. The Readers Digest version is basically that you wouldn't want to run titanium valves in say an turbo endurance (road race) application but drag racing should be fine. He ended by saying "If you've got 'em run 'em but if not don't spend the money".
I hope this makes sense.
Neal
750H.P.V6
Brutal 6 Racing
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2001
James,
Actually that project got shelved. What I was going to do was re-configure an old Busch GN motor (Stage II heads and all) and run it on the street. I'm still planning on using the Stage II heads with the titanium valves but haven't done so yet.
Ted has a point, if you're worried about the titanium valves you can replace the exhaust valves with Stainless Steel. I'm going to use mine as is. BTW, I don't have an EGT gauge so I can't really give you my $.02 on that. 1600 degrees wouldn't be that uncommon to see in a racing application.
Neal
Actually that project got shelved. What I was going to do was re-configure an old Busch GN motor (Stage II heads and all) and run it on the street. I'm still planning on using the Stage II heads with the titanium valves but haven't done so yet.
Ted has a point, if you're worried about the titanium valves you can replace the exhaust valves with Stainless Steel. I'm going to use mine as is. BTW, I don't have an EGT gauge so I can't really give you my $.02 on that. 1600 degrees wouldn't be that uncommon to see in a racing application.
Neal
EightSecV6
MDBL
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
Ive used the Titanium valves in several street and race engines and have never burned one. They are MUCH lighter than the stainless valves. My EGT's on the race car run about 1850 degf
L
LikeMy6
Guest
Hi guys, I dont want to step on any toes I know I am not an expert on race engines but I have some knowledge on Metallurgy and believe it or not Titanium is made from sand! everyone knows that when sand is heated it turns to glass well when its super heated say to 5000* some of its structure forms into what we know as Titanium. It was 1st discovered at los alamos in New Mexico during the development of the A-Bomb. so their shouldnt be any worries about exhaust gas temps and Titanium.also for some other cool info, the skin of a SR-71 Blackbird is also made from Titanium because it was the ONLY metal that could survive the extreme temps of Mach 3+ and still be light enough for flight!
My.02
later, Frank
My.02
later, Frank
The Radius Kid
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2002
From what I remember form my days of racing,Neal's right.It was common practice to use titanium intake valaves and stainless exhaust valves.The stainless exhausts were better at standing up to the exhaust heat and weight wise,they usually didn't show that big of a weight difference compared to the stainless due to the smaller size of the exhaust valve.
EightSecV6
MDBL
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
I dont want to step on any toes either but how many 1000+HP V6 engines has Lazano Bros. built for drag racing? Choice is yours...
Bill
Bill
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
TITanium valves??
Haven't seen anyone mention the "fatigue factor" in this thread.
I guess that any/all valves are subjected to fatigue. However, a used valve, as my engine guy said, is like a "used condom", once used, they are to be thrown away. He also stated that the valves in the used engines we are getting from the ASA, NASCAR, folks have, in most cases, seen VERY high rpm's for extended periods of time, all w/ very high spring pressures on them.
I end to go w/ his advice, as he was a builder for the BUICK ASA and road race, [IMSA] program.
The last stage 2 I've been involved in, an odd fire on the street, had the titaniums taken out and new stainless put in.
Just my $.02 worth.
Haven't seen anyone mention the "fatigue factor" in this thread.
I guess that any/all valves are subjected to fatigue. However, a used valve, as my engine guy said, is like a "used condom", once used, they are to be thrown away. He also stated that the valves in the used engines we are getting from the ASA, NASCAR, folks have, in most cases, seen VERY high rpm's for extended periods of time, all w/ very high spring pressures on them.
I end to go w/ his advice, as he was a builder for the BUICK ASA and road race, [IMSA] program
The last stage 2 I've been involved in, an odd fire on the street, had the titaniums taken out and new stainless put in.
Just my $.02 worth.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
After talking to numerous people on this subject in the past and from my own experience, here's my 2 cents worth.
Race car - run em both in titanium
Street car - titanium intakes, SS exhaust
Another thing, and people may argue with this, but I think titanium valves are only good for about a season and at that point they need to be replaced. This point has been debated somewhat but I had a titanium valve disintegrate on me after being in use for about a year, replaced them and no troubles since.
Race car - run em both in titanium
Street car - titanium intakes, SS exhaust
Another thing, and people may argue with this, but I think titanium valves are only good for about a season and at that point they need to be replaced. This point has been debated somewhat but I had a titanium valve disintegrate on me after being in use for about a year, replaced them and no troubles since.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
JC'S comment
I go w/ jay's comment on the unknown life expectancy of used valves.
I also had the same comments regarding TITanium rods from the folks at Gaerte Race Engines in Rochester IN. The shop forman said to be very cautious when using used titanium anything. Again, that follows closely w/ Jay's comment.
The TITanium rods I had were coated w/?? [A process that can be repeated on used rods] He said that the coating was to prevent the titanium from galling. I'd think that would be the same requirement for valves, given the close tolerances on a valve guide. YES-NO??
back to my rock
I go w/ jay's comment on the unknown life expectancy of used valves.
I also had the same comments regarding TITanium rods from the folks at Gaerte Race Engines in Rochester IN. The shop forman said to be very cautious when using used titanium anything. Again, that follows closely w/ Jay's comment.
The TITanium rods I had were coated w/?? [A process that can be repeated on used rods] He said that the coating was to prevent the titanium from galling. I'd think that would be the same requirement for valves, given the close tolerances on a valve guide. YES-NO??
back to my rock
The Radius Kid
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2002
Could be,depending on the amount of heat,lubrication.and clearances between the guide and stem.Titanium does not like contact friction.I've machined it and have seen it for myself.
turbobitt
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
Inconel is the way to go
I to had the same delema, My heads had titanium valves. I called Kenny D. and told me to use
inconel exhaust because they don't stretch under extreme heat. Titanium will stretch and move
under heat. I ran regular stainless on the intake. I didn't wan't to blow a valve through my expensive turbo .
Allan Gorneault
I to had the same delema, My heads had titanium valves. I called Kenny D. and told me to use
inconel exhaust because they don't stretch under extreme heat. Titanium will stretch and move
under heat. I ran regular stainless on the intake. I didn't wan't to blow a valve through my expensive turbo .
Allan Gorneault
