Suspension Help

[VictoryTrans]

Well we finally got the car out to the track, only 1/8 mile in Gainesville for a while, but it had to do. With about 19psi we made 3 passes.

1st pass: 7psi launch, spun tires all the way down the track 1.8 60ft 6.80@113, after inspection in the pits, ripped wheelwell moldings off both sides

2nd pass: 10psi launch, instantly spun again, almost hit wall 3 different times, 1.55 60ft 6.8@only 101 mph

3rd pass: lowered tire pressure to 10psi and tried to launch harder, 13 psi launch, really sliding all over the track this time 1.50 60ft, 6.6@99, almost crossed into the other lane and smacked the other car

After the last pass the announcer said "Man that regal's layin down some monster torque, hate to see em' run the full 1/4 until he does some SERIOUS chassis tweakin"

Well at least we know the cars making tons of power, but if we cant make a straight pass with only 19 psi, how can we do it when the cars turned up??

The first thing I recommended my father do to upgrade suspension is putting on a Wolfe-type bar, and some adjustable control arms. But i had a couple of questions, is the double bar Wolfe-bar worth the extra money over the single, and is it used in conjunction with a sway bar or what? And what brand adjustable arms would you guys recommend? Any else? Thanks a bunch


BTW, about what 1/4 mile mph would 113 1/8 equate to?

 

[mike85gn]

Originally posted by VictoryTrans
BTW, about what 1/4 mile mph would 113 1/8 equate to?

Really, REALLY fast! Sounds like fun! If you can get it to hook and go straight, you'll be in for a hell of a ride! Are you lifting wheels with those 60' times? Keep it safe!

 

[KEVINS]

You should prolly ask Wolfe about the double sway vs single sway bar but I don't think you'll need the dbl. Once you install one you don't need any sway bar front or rear. This should help A LOT!
Are you using a Tbrake?
What tires are you using?

Excellent runs btw considering lack of traction!

ks

 

[VictoryTrans]

Yes we are using a transbrake, but haven't been launching as hard as usual because we know it won't hook. We're using Goodyear 29x11 slicks. BTW, would a 4-link be more of an optimal setup over the WolfeBar?? Thanks

 

[Sinful6]

4 link would be better, but costs more, and it quite "racey"... Not sure if your trying for a specific look...

 

[VictoryTrans]

Exactly how much work is entailed in installing a 4-link or even ladder bars for that matter??

 

[KEVINS]

None of them is necessary. The stockers can be set up great but does require some welding to re-angle the control arms so the proper Instant Center is achieved.
The ladder bars are the easiest with the 4link being more difficult. If you have never attempted anything like this then I would not try the 4link. Ladder bars are fairly easy to install if you have the mechanical know how and the tools, it just takes time.

With a 4link you will still need a Wolfe bar but ladders bars you don't.

ks

 

[VictoryTrans]

Will a ladder bar setup fit under the stock frame?? And why does a 4-link need the Wolfe bar but ladder bars do not?? And lastly, seeing as to how you know your stuff, what would you personally recommend?? I've seen a kit that relocates the control arm mounts, are they necessary? Thanks for the help

 

[KEVINS]

I'm pretty sure a ladder set up will fit with the stock frame rails. Ladder bars are approx 32" long from the center of the axle tube so you could measure and see how far forward this would put the front mount. I'm hoping that you have some idea of what parts are involved so you know what to look for? If not do a web search for Chris Alston Chassis Works, they have GREAT pics of what a kit looks like along with great parts.

A 4link still allows the rear to twist/rotate because of the heim ends while a ladder bar does not. The Wolfe bar prevents twist and also has the ability to add preload if needed.

As far as the brackets that relocate the stock arms, it all depends if they locate the angles properly. I have not seen any that do. The ones that I have seen move them too much and can cause more problems than they are worth, IMO. That's not to say that some exist but I haven't seen them

Hmmm.. What I personally recommend all depends on your CURRENT goals, FUTURE goals and your ability to fabricate the suspenison parts. Believe it or not the Ladder Bars will be much easier to install than relocating the existing control arms with custom brackets that you will have to fabricate. So it depends on your goals. Just like Sinful6 mentioned, a custom suspension is more "Racey" but if you don't mind a "non-stock" type suspension then go ladder bar.

ks

 

[VictoryTrans]

Right now, I think my dad's main goal is to run a 9.30-9.40 SAFELY down the track. If it's can only be done with a ladder bar setup or such than so be it, but if a stock style suspension will work, than that will be the way to go. My dad doesnt like altering the look of stock and ladder bars or 4-link wasnt his main choice, but he didnt think a stock suspension would get it done. But if all doesnt work out, I do know the parts entailed with a ladder bar setup, so thats a plus

 

[KEVINS]

If you'll let me suggest, let me help figure out what the suspension currently looks like now by plotting the control arm angles and the weight distribution, etc and from there we can see what may be needed to alter the control arms and get them set up properly. Maybe they are just fine and a sway bar is all that is needed along with good control arms or maybe they are so far off that new brackets will be needed.


ks

 

[VictoryTrans]

Well Kevin, looks like we're gonna start in a better position. My dad just ordered the upper and lower adjustable arms and single bar from Wolfe. I would greatly appreciate if you could give some advice on this setup. Thanks a bunch

 

[KEVINS]

I dunno if the Wolfe bar comes with any instructions on how to set it up for preload but here is what I have found and copied to my web page:

This was posted at www.Hardcore50.com:

This is how David Wolfe taught me to set up a car with a sway bar:
1. Center rear end side to side
2. Center rear end in wheel well front to back
3. Set pinion angle using the harmonic dampner and pinon gear face as reference points
4. Put jack under kmember and lift evenly until front wheels are 2" off the ground with the driver in the seat (or at least that much weight there)
5. Adjust passenger sway bar link until driver door corner is 1/8" lower than same point on passenger side

If car goes left, shorten passenger link 1/2 turn
If car goes right, lengthen passenger link 1/2 turn

hth's a bit
ks

 

[VictoryTrans]

Kevin, I had another question. We used airbags before primarily from keeping the 29x11 tires from hitting. Everyone has said NOT to use the bags with the Wolfebar. Will the bar still prevent the tires from hitting? Thanks

 

[KEVINS]

Correct. The Wolfe bar does not allow ANY twisting movement at all in the chassis so you can get rid of the air bags and use them for party favors

ks

 

[Sinful6]

Victory, you know of any stage 2's for sale or trade now? I'm in the market for one...

 

[VictoryTrans]

Originally posted by Sinful6
Victory, you know of any stage 2's for sale or trade now? I'm in the market for one...

sorry, I dont of anyone personally who has one for sale right now. But I have seen a bunch in "Parts for Sale" lately, do a little search and you might find what your looking for. If I hear of anything I'll let ya know. Good luck

 

[blackshoebox]

Get a hold off...

...Mr. Cal Hartline. His car dead hooks anywhere.(street or track) Im sure he direct you in the right direction.

-Alex

 

[Sinful6]

<-------- Would gladly take those airbags off your hands. I think I've gone too long without them.