Sounds like my car. Check your valvesprings.If valve springs check out fine than i would go into the trans (converter must likely). I had my car at a mustang dyno , 2 months ago. The power on my car would climb like mad to about 6100 rpms (670hp @ 21 psi) and than drop off the cliff. The car would go to 6100 rpms and than almost instant hit the rev limiter at 7500 rpms. Also on the street the car 1-2 shift at wot would hardly drop rpm . With your A/f mixture remember lean is mean. ppl get too hung up on a/f ratio.It is not that simple.
Stage 1 Dyno disaster
- Thread starter norbs
- Start date
Sounds like my car. Check your valvesprings.If valve springs check out fine than i would go into the trans (converter must likely). I had my car at a mustang dyno , 2 months ago. The power on my car would climb like mad to about 6100 rpms (670hp @ 21 psi) and than drop off the cliff. The car would go to 6100 rpms and than almost instant hit the rev limiter at 7500 rpms. Also on the street the car 1-2 shift at wot would hardly drop rpm . With your A/f mixture remember lean is mean. ppl get too hung up on a/f ratio.It is not that simple.
Even if his a/f was 9.0:1 he still should have put down over 400hp with that combo at 16psi. There is/was another problem that caused the low output and glowing manifolds.
Like Lonnie said. When I repined the Gen7 from my stock harness, I wired the ccci up, forgot the bypass wire.:redface: I noticed the car was running hot too.
HTH!!
Yes i run the GEN7 with a distributor. I did check the timing and when it was locked and running it did seem to be moving to what i set it in the map. WIsh i had a video of the headers glowing orange , the guy at the dyno said he never seen something glow orange in about 5 seconds like that, and he has dyno'd 1500 hp v8 setups. I just run a +300 box nothing special there trigererd by the EST ouptut from the gen 7.
I could use one the way its going, any donors?
Well if they're glowing abnormally in your opinion, then there's really only one reason for it- excessively retarded timing. Assuming you don't have a clogged exhaust. I left a shop rag in one of the header pipes once), but fortunately it just stopped up the turbine entrance and quickly stalled the engine (lol). Anyway, seems a few minutes with a timing light while on the dyno would answer that timing question definitively.
If you remember the old, old days of gnttype I had a microcontroller device that recorded various basic engine parameters externally (like spark timing and injector duty cycle); for timing it basically just counted the elapsed time between the crank pulse edge and the EST pulse edge and converted that time to CAD. Something like that comes in handy on occasion.
But in your case I think you could validate that the timing is working correctly just at idle in park. Do you have any external devices or algorithms running that can pull timing for whatever reasons (like is your knock retard loop running)?
TurboTR
If you remember the old, old days of gnttype I had a microcontroller device that recorded various basic engine parameters externally (like spark timing and injector duty cycle); for timing it basically just counted the elapsed time between the crank pulse edge and the EST pulse edge and converted that time to CAD. Something like that comes in handy on occasion.
But in your case I think you could validate that the timing is working correctly just at idle in park. Do you have any external devices or algorithms running that can pull timing for whatever reasons (like is your knock retard loop running)?
TurboTR
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2001
Norbs,
What kind of dyno did you use? I recently had mine on a Mustang dyno and the numbers were ridiculously low. We made 810 @ the wheels and the car went 162.45 mph which is considerably more than what the dyno showed. We did put it on a dynojet to compare and made 996 which seems more accurate. I don't feel either one of them accurately represented what the car is actually doing on the track. Glowing headers are normal IMO. Mine get so red it looks like the turbo is going to melt right off with AFR 11.2 and 24* timing.
If that was a MD dyno try a dyno jet there is less "operator error" although I feel the MD dyno will load the car better and will more accurately show the power curve and will be better for tune the VE table. If it was a Dynojet you need to pack that thing up and take down to Lonnie.
What kind of dyno did you use? I recently had mine on a Mustang dyno and the numbers were ridiculously low. We made 810 @ the wheels and the car went 162.45 mph which is considerably more than what the dyno showed. We did put it on a dynojet to compare and made 996 which seems more accurate. I don't feel either one of them accurately represented what the car is actually doing on the track. Glowing headers are normal IMO. Mine get so red it looks like the turbo is going to melt right off with AFR 11.2 and 24* timing.
If that was a MD dyno try a dyno jet there is less "operator error" although I feel the MD dyno will load the car better and will more accurately show the power curve and will be better for tune the VE table. If it was a Dynojet you need to pack that thing up and take down to Lonnie.
I feel that it is a timing issue, and yes i do have my knock sensor hooked up, but i watched the knock gauge during the run and there was no knock at all. I have advanced the cam 6 degrees now and will verfiy the timing at a few dfferent rpm's , maybe fool with the idnuctive delay settings on the dfi.
I have to get a egt hooked up also. If that all seems ok, i guess i could advance the timing at low boost until i get into some slight knock. Nothing i would want to try at 25 psi though. THis was tested on a dynojet also. An external logger would be a great idea, but i don't have anything here like that.
My injector target time is at 400 degrees so far, in theory it should be 584, but i think thats a lil bit too high, but i cant see this being the problem, most don;t even touch this value and leave it at 310.
I am running a external msd crank trigger style pickup and also the ve numbers are with 3% during the run so the table is not that far off.
Thanks everyone for your idea's. Not sure when I'm going back to retest.
I have to get a egt hooked up also. If that all seems ok, i guess i could advance the timing at low boost until i get into some slight knock. Nothing i would want to try at 25 psi though. THis was tested on a dynojet also. An external logger would be a great idea, but i don't have anything here like that.
My injector target time is at 400 degrees so far, in theory it should be 584, but i think thats a lil bit too high, but i cant see this being the problem, most don;t even touch this value and leave it at 310.
I am running a external msd crank trigger style pickup and also the ve numbers are with 3% during the run so the table is not that far off.
Thanks everyone for your idea's. Not sure when I'm going back to retest.
Playing with the car today with 2 different timing lights. I locked the timiing in at 32 degrees and im getting about 20 degrees on the balancer. It apears the timing is 12 degrees off from true tdc on the balancer that i found during the cam degreeing. I found that the balancer tdc was 2 degrees off for some reason.
However we checked the timing on the dyno and it was right on, but we were using a dial back timing light. The one i have doesnt have that feature that im using now. I just marked the balancer at 20 degrees and line it up to the zero mark on the timing tab.
If this was the case then i was doing my dyno pulls with about 10-12 degrees of timing?
However we checked the timing on the dyno and it was right on, but we were using a dial back timing light. The one i have doesnt have that feature that im using now. I just marked the balancer at 20 degrees and line it up to the zero mark on the timing tab.
If this was the case then i was doing my dyno pulls with about 10-12 degrees of timing?
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Norb,
It sounds like you are starting to get somewhere.
I wonder if you did not have to mess with the cam after all???
John the cam was still out, it might not of hurt it that much, but advancing it should increase the spool and low speed torque. Eventually i'll get this thing sorted out and get some good numbers.
Why is the mustang dyno so different than a dynojet in the results you get?
Why is the mustang dyno so different than a dynojet in the results you get?
Norbs i noticed when i advanced the cam i got alot more cylinder pressure and more cranking compression more low end but a shorter power band . I use a dynojet and the number are pretty close to what you calculate in track times . I just dynoed an unopened motor with bolt ons and it made 470@490 and made peak power at 4900 rpm i remember dynoing a buddys stage car and it made 700 with a 76gts at 24 lbs wouldnt make more, mustang dynos are better to load a car you can make more boost on diesel trucks they prefer mustang dynos cause the load them down and make 15 lbs more boost from what i hear.