Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
What happened to this then?
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ho...ch/293888-where-injecto-alky-hot-air-car.html
Spray into carb or Intake?
- Thread starter Freddie's Buick
- Start date
What happened to this then?
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ho...ch/293888-where-injecto-alky-hot-air-car.html
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
Well, since the polls are still open . . . 
My vote is right after the turbo and before the carb for these reasons;
1 - You will not need the extra solenoid if you inject before the throttle plate.
2 - You will get better delta temps. Since the meth has proven to be very good at reducing temps, the higher the initial temps temps, the better vaporization, the higher the delta temps. After the carbs will yield reduced meth use because you can not vaporize as much after the fuel took some of the heat out.
3 - Better vaporization in the +250F heat right after the tubo = better distribution = more power = less KR tendency
4 - Spraying before the turbo is a GREAT option, but I would use a propane set-up for that, in combination with the meth. after the turbo.
5 - Cooling the charge before the carb will reduce the temps the carb sees, ans since you guys are not planning on running low boost, it will make the seals last a little longer, and not heat up the fuel as much, which will prevent vapor lock.
Anyway, that is my quick $0.02 :wink:
My vote is right after the turbo and before the carb for these reasons;
1 - You will not need the extra solenoid if you inject before the throttle plate.
2 - You will get better delta temps. Since the meth has proven to be very good at reducing temps, the higher the initial temps temps, the better vaporization, the higher the delta temps. After the carbs will yield reduced meth use because you can not vaporize as much after the fuel took some of the heat out.
3 - Better vaporization in the +250F heat right after the tubo = better distribution = more power = less KR tendency
4 - Spraying before the turbo is a GREAT option, but I would use a propane set-up for that, in combination with the meth. after the turbo.
5 - Cooling the charge before the carb will reduce the temps the carb sees, ans since you guys are not planning on running low boost, it will make the seals last a little longer, and not heat up the fuel as much, which will prevent vapor lock.
Anyway, that is my quick $0.02 :wink:
Well, since the polls are still open . . .
My vote is right after the turbo and before the carb for these reasons;
1 - You will not need the extra solenoid if you inject before the throttle plate.
2 - You will get better delta temps. Since the meth has proven to be very good at reducing temps, the higher the initial temps temps, the better vaporization, the higher the delta temps. After the carbs will yield reduced meth use because you can not vaporize as much after the fuel took some of the heat out.
3 - Better vaporization in the +250F heat right after the tubo = better distribution = more power = less KR tendency
4 - Spraying before the turbo is a GREAT option, but I would use a propane set-up for that, in combination with the meth. after the turbo.
5 - Cooling the charge before the carb will reduce the temps the carb sees, and since you guys are not planning on running low boost, it will make the seals last a little longer, and not heat up the fuel as much, which will prevent vapor lock.
Anyway, that is my quick $0.02 :wink:
LOL I had a feeling you'd take a look Jerryl. The only problem is what you stated would work on a turbo carb set up not a draw through design. We've kick this around between all of us to some degree and I'm sure I'll have a little of both when I get to it. This way it will have an intial alky going through the carb and a second one going into the turbo foot.
Jerryl
Tall Unvaccinated Chinese Guy
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2004
My bad.
Thought it was a blow through . . . :frown:
In that case . . . my final vote is;
After the turbo. Let the fuel from the carb take the intial hit on the temps to reduce charge temps, than let the alky after the turbo take out the residual temps to get back to ambient . . . . or run E85 and skip the meth injection all together. One less variable to worry about. :wink:
Quote from Aj's post:
Quoting Vernon Tomlinson, Hilborn Fuel Injection:
Improper location of alcohol nozzles at the inlet of the turbocharger in some applications reduced power. The alcohol spray blocked some of the air that would otherwise be drawn into the inlet. Moving the nozzle location away from the air inlet opening produced 25 HP more than a close location in those cases.
Suggesting that 12 to 18 for sfi cars, and as far as the longest straight shot possible directly from turbo. And for situations in carb use, where distance is limited, he suggested aiming the nozzle directly at the nut in the center of the compressor wheel... as the edges of the fins are where erosion tends to occur. Erosion is usually caused by cheep/poor nozzles due to lack of inital atomization - this needs to be carefully observed during nozzle selection.
This really is the best idea because the compressor is cooled as it does it's job. The whole point is to use the turbo to mix everything together and allow the alky to mix in with everything so it is atomized better. Even Smokey Yunik did this on a 2.5L fiero and got fantastic results from it.:biggrin:
Skylark-69
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2004
I vote for before the turbo. As was stated, make darned sure it is atomised properly.
One benefit I have seen others claim from this setup is faster spool up by a few hundred RPMs.
One benefit I have seen others claim from this setup is faster spool up by a few hundred RPMs.
On the bottom of the compressor side of the turbo there was an extra threaded hole down by the intake manifold. 1 nozzle was plumbed in there. The other was plumbed into the carb bonnet aimed straight into the carb. It was set-up to come on at around 9-10 psi. Here is the pic of the tank and controller. The tank had an electric pump inside. Also am posting the pic of the cam specs I was using in this setup.
Attachments
Thanks again Pat. What kind of times were you getting out of it? Have you taken a look at the turbo thread I've been working on? I think it will do more than the stock set up from the research I've done on it. Click on the second link in my sig and give your input.
I was only in the 14's but I had alot of tuning that needed to be done when I got rid of it before I could get it tuned in and back to the track. If I had another knee in 1 leg, it would make it alot easier to kick myself in the ass as much as I do.:biggrin:
Yeah, sold a friend of mine's dad my 67 Tempest when I was in high school for $400. It needed brake work. He only wanted to buy it cause he was sick of seeing it in his driveway. As soon as I signed the title over to him, he went out, hopped on his bulldozer, and proceeded to run it over and shove it off in the briars.
Yeah, sold a friend of mine's dad my 67 Tempest when I was in high school for $400. It needed brake work. He only wanted to buy it cause he was sick of seeing it in his driveway. As soon as I signed the title over to him, he went out, hopped on his bulldozer, and proceeded to run it over and shove it off in the briars.
LMAO!!! Youth is an amazing thing.:biggrin: If there was a way to go back in time I'd be a millionaire.
:biggrin:Took a while to find this but here's the best explanation as to why to go pre turbo. It's some good info for us.
Pre-compressor injection test results - DSM Forums
Pre-compressor injection test results - DSM Forums
You guys have made me take a GERITOL... Back in 85, a friend of mine had a 83 T Type w/carb. We modded the exhaust with a Walker Dynomax catback. We fabbed a 2 3/4 downpipe with mandrel bends. The engine was refreshed with a rering kit, gaskets, and a KB oil pump kit. The cam was changed to a one off Comp Cams split 260/268 duration. We had a homemade windshield washer alky system.The car ran 13's after modding. We got it into the 12's with a Holley Carb. Before this car retired, we had the HEI recurved and the cam was retarded. Do not ask why but the car responded. It left real quite and about 30 feet out.... ALL HELL broke loose.... Two nice black strips of rubber... We fixed the traction issue. And was rewarded with a 12.30. We never got the homemade alky to work without drowning the engine. Plan "B" came next.... 100hp of Nitrous. The carb was a Nitrous Carb from the start.
We tried to leave on the shot.... broke a U joint. Got a bigger joint and a bigger shaft. Left on idle and sprayed past the tree and was rewarded with a 11.80 and a lot of spin. This was in 1985. Hot Rod Magazine had Ken Dutweiler and John Baectel running a 1985 K/Stock in the 12.40's. We wrote Hot Rod and they were not really interested. Saddly, they ran articles on Carbed Turbo V6's throughtout the 80's... Go Figure.... We finally got the car to run 11.50's carbed. Ooops, I almost for got the major parts? The Turbo was modded by the Late John Myers (NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle Champion). He had the biggest wheel he could put in it. The intake had been ported and the heads were 4.1 292 heads with bigger valves and were EXTRUDEHONED. The factory headers were ported and welded. This car was the ULTIMATE sleeper.... In 1985 the Rustang GT was hot... and most people would look at the 83 T Type and laugh until they were handing over a WAD of cash......
The car blew a gasket in 1988. Technology had also caught up with us. The engine was replaced with a 400 SBC with a ROTOMASTER turbo. If I can get my old server back up, I have some pictures and maybe a write up that we sent to HOT ROD Mag....
We tried to leave on the shot.... broke a U joint. Got a bigger joint and a bigger shaft. Left on idle and sprayed past the tree and was rewarded with a 11.80 and a lot of spin. This was in 1985. Hot Rod Magazine had Ken Dutweiler and John Baectel running a 1985 K/Stock in the 12.40's. We wrote Hot Rod and they were not really interested. Saddly, they ran articles on Carbed Turbo V6's throughtout the 80's... Go Figure.... We finally got the car to run 11.50's carbed. Ooops, I almost for got the major parts? The Turbo was modded by the Late John Myers (NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle Champion). He had the biggest wheel he could put in it. The intake had been ported and the heads were 4.1 292 heads with bigger valves and were EXTRUDEHONED. The factory headers were ported and welded. This car was the ULTIMATE sleeper.... In 1985 the Rustang GT was hot... and most people would look at the 83 T Type and laugh until they were handing over a WAD of cash......
The car blew a gasket in 1988. Technology had also caught up with us. The engine was replaced with a 400 SBC with a ROTOMASTER turbo. If I can get my old server back up, I have some pictures and maybe a write up that we sent to HOT ROD Mag....
Well you need to post some sort of link Mike.:smile: I want to see it all from beginning to end. Otherwise I'll call BS!
