Rough running turbo buick
- Thread starter Burner
- Start date
TR partners I took a break from the action for a second to go over possible problems again.THe issue about the balancer bolt loosening worries me. I've heard about the cracking exhaust manifold but this other issuelike I said worries me a little!Am gonna hit it hard this weekend after a swapmeet. Couple of friends bringing cars to sell 1966 el camino,1967 Scode stang,and my 1969SS in case somone wants to call my bluff!!Loe it when a father son team looks at it.Tell them the car was built in Fremont Ca. and has never left 15 square mile area from where it was built.Then tell them the car goes really good from zero to one hundred!!That usually chases them away.
bmackinnon
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
yup.... that's ok.. it will have a bit of up/down play... I'm gonna think about this some more.... this is proving to be a bit of a tough one... :frown:
bmackinnon
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
check that damn egr valve...
ANY air leak between the maff sensor and the turbo inlet will cause it to run rough and stumble, if you still have the orig. maff pipe, remove it and hold it up in the light, look for cracks, breaks in it. Also I have seen a couple of cars that the insulatiom deteriorated on the injector harness on the firewall side of the plug causing shorting and fueling problems. Also check the injector harness on number 1 behind the egr, it often melts there from the egr heat. Take a quick look at the positive battery cable to the starter-, its short and sometimes melts under the passenger side exhaust manifold. Good luck, you'll find it!:biggrin:
Burner: I'm in San Jose, CA. Give me a call or email. I'll send you the phone #.
I'd say take off the EGR valve & see if the pintle in it is seating. Carbon can hold it open slightly, causing a rough idle.
It won't hurt to run some fuel injector cleaner in it, while you're at all this. Just suddenly going rough could be a fouled/dirty injector. There a place that cleans & tests them in north San Jose.
You can get vacuum leaks at "odd" places, like the brake booster & it's vacuum lines, or around the injectors, or the intake manifold gaskets, the PCV lines, the Evap vacuum line, heater/AC control vacuum lines, etc.
Avoid "no name" brand sensors!
It would be a good idea to get it scanned again. It will be cheaper than just throwing parts at it.
I'd say take off the EGR valve & see if the pintle in it is seating. Carbon can hold it open slightly, causing a rough idle.
It won't hurt to run some fuel injector cleaner in it, while you're at all this. Just suddenly going rough could be a fouled/dirty injector. There a place that cleans & tests them in north San Jose.
You can get vacuum leaks at "odd" places, like the brake booster & it's vacuum lines, or around the injectors, or the intake manifold gaskets, the PCV lines, the Evap vacuum line, heater/AC control vacuum lines, etc.
Avoid "no name" brand sensors!
It would be a good idea to get it scanned again. It will be cheaper than just throwing parts at it.
Where are you located at? You might be close to a guru and not even know it. Have you tried a different fuel pressure regulator yet?
You say there is hesitation, is there a backfire? Will the car shut off @ idle if you don't give it gas? Do you have tps readings while car is running? Dead spot maybe?
Does the car drive like normal, then act up? or is this a new "all the time phenomina"?
You say there is hesitation, is there a backfire? Will the car shut off @ idle if you don't give it gas? Do you have tps readings while car is running? Dead spot maybe?
Does the car drive like normal, then act up? or is this a new "all the time phenomina"?
Thanks again guys will check the egr valve. reached behind cover and pulled toward vavle toward me and it sprung back.Also gonna check the hose between maf and turbo and see if there are any rips or cracks never took it off yet.Never checked vac lines around the brakes or heater/ac controls under the dash?Aways use ac delco parts.Hacksaw I'm in Castro Valley little north of you!! cool i'd like to talk about this problem. My email is mchin95@aol.com,phone # is 510-415-9181.Ryan heard about a guru in fairfield ca.That would be a last resort because I'd like to fix it myself with the help from you guys and this great site!!Also no backfire, stock regulater.Has 41lbs. pressure with reg hose off and same when you try to drive it.Car starts but after 1 or2minutes cardies unless you give it gas.Car seems like it won't go past 40mph when it's cold or warm.Don't remember tps # from friends OTC but he said ok.
bmackinnon
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
Check the egr valve just like you did, but with the car running.... if it stumbles badly or dies when you do it, the egr valve is sealing fine and is not the problem...
As the previous poster mentioned, check the inlet tube from maf to turbo inlet.... i mentioned checking the connections before, but should have been more specific to include the pipe/hose itself... can/will definitely cause your issues..
Do the rubber glove trick to eliminate a vac leak via vac hoses as a problem.... it could still have one at the intake/head interface, but doesn't seem likely given how the problem just occured when you goosed it on the highway... a little carb cleaner or ether spraying around the intake gasket should verify it's not leaking there....
Good tip on verifying the injector harness also... does it seem like it's missing a cylinder completely??? ..ie a dead miss??
As the previous poster mentioned, check the inlet tube from maf to turbo inlet.... i mentioned checking the connections before, but should have been more specific to include the pipe/hose itself... can/will definitely cause your issues..
Do the rubber glove trick to eliminate a vac leak via vac hoses as a problem.... it could still have one at the intake/head interface, but doesn't seem likely given how the problem just occured when you goosed it on the highway... a little carb cleaner or ether spraying around the intake gasket should verify it's not leaking there....
Good tip on verifying the injector harness also... does it seem like it's missing a cylinder completely??? ..ie a dead miss??
Hacksaw was great enough to come on by and we looked over the car.He sprayed carb cleaner into the throttle body thru the hole in the bottem toward the iac.The car ran better it reminded me of when this first happened. You could drive the car on the freeway no spitting poping or backfire.The car would shift down but no boost!!Hacksaw said it looks like it could be wastegate solenoid.Think so?No miss car will idle now still sort of rough.Going to try carb cleaner and glove trick for leaks.Thanks again Hacksaw and everyone else!!
bmackinnon
Active Member
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- Feb 24, 2005
Hmmm... I'm confused now... there should be no 'hole' to where you could spray anything 'into' the throttle body.... if your talking about the threaded hole low on the driver side of the the tb, near the iac, just in front of the throttle linkage... I'm almost positive that's just a blind hole with no passage into the induction tract.... not sure where else you could be talking about?
Could you clarify a bit? maybe post a pic? Did you guys cycle the egr valve when the car was running? Results? The wastegate solenoid has zero effect on how the engine runs.... just how much boost it makes... should have nothing to do with a rough running condition...Try to send a pic.Take the 90degree pipe to the throttle body off and at 6 oclock there is a hole that we sprayed carb cleaner in and that seems to have made the car run little better but no boost! With engine running reached behind the cover pulled the diaphram toward me and the engine started to stumble and want to die.Was looking at Kirban book and he mentioned a bad wastegate solenoid can cause no boost or worst yet over boost.Is there a way I can check it?If the boost would kick in I would say we're there!!Hmmm... I'm confused now... there should be no 'hole' to where you could spray anything 'into' the throttle body.... if your talking about the threaded hole low on the driver side of the the tb, near the iac, just in front of the throttle linkage... I'm almost positive that's just a blind hole with no passage into the induction tract.... not sure where else you could be talking about?
bmackinnon
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
OK... you removed the uppipe to spray into the iac port.... gotcha... If it's running rough, then SOMETHING is wrong, regardless if it's making boost or not... you can run the boost control 'tuner style', by just running a vac. hose from the compressor housing straight to the wastegate actuator port... this should give boost equal to the factory spring rate in the actuator which is ~12 psi.... all the wg solenoid does is bleed off the boost signal prior to the wg actuator, thus 'fooling' the actuator into thinking there is less boost than there really is, and keeping the wg closed.... so if you hose it straight from the turbo to wg, you will get less boost than with it routed thru the solenoid.... I don't think this is your problem though.... need to try the glove trick.... and from your post above, the egr valve appears to not be the culprit.
bmackinnon
Active Member
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- Feb 24, 2005
sheesh.... a scan tool sure would be helpful.... I'm not sure where to go from here.... I'm still suspecting the maf... REALLY need a scantool of some sort to give us some direction on where to look next.... where do you live? Surely there's someone halfway close that has a scanmaster to throw in there and get some real data... if the blm's are real high, and there's no vac leaks, it's really pointing to the maf or fuel system... do you still have your old maf? what chip is in there?
The swapmeet might have one we'll see. Hope it's not maf switched with old one unplugged orange connection reconnected ran the same.Freind works at the parts store just don't really want to keep trading till a good one comes.But if it doesn't work I guess it will have to get exchanged pending scanmaster.Stock chip did mention tryed taking the chip out limp home mode?no change
bmackinnon
Active Member
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- Feb 24, 2005
That should rule out the maf... you know as well as I do that it's something ridiculously simple.... always is in cases like this......
The radiator burst on my Achieva on the way back from Burner's place, so I had that fiasco to fix before comment more.
The EGR diaphragm holds, I pushed it in by hand & then plugged the vacuum line to it. We cleaned the firewall ground on the driver's side. The TPS resistance was nice & linear. The Manifold Air Temperature (MAT) resistance was correct. We looked for vacuum leaks, and even checked the 4 bolts holding down the doghouse torque.
We ran some throttle/carb cleaner through the front of the dog house with it running & the intake hose off of the doghouse. That seemed to help the idle issue. I was thinking of taking the IAC off, but then the IAC & TPS would need all that readjustment stuff...
Yes, we took the orange ECM wire off to make it relearn every major step we took.
Burner: I would still run some more throttle body/carb cleaner through the from the front of the doghouse.
Check the Y fitting on this page's picture to see if the wastegate actuator vacuum line is hooked up right:
Quick Reference Page For the '86/'87 Turbo Regals and '89 Turbo T/A
If that's plumbed OK, then lack of punch is likely the wastegate solenoid failing, or the wastegate actuator (the can & assembly under the Turbo).
Anyone have info on testing the wastegate actuator to see if it works??
It runs smooth at part throttle. We wonder if the timing chain had jumped, but it runs so good at part throttle, I have doubts the chain jumped.
The EGR diaphragm holds, I pushed it in by hand & then plugged the vacuum line to it. We cleaned the firewall ground on the driver's side. The TPS resistance was nice & linear. The Manifold Air Temperature (MAT) resistance was correct. We looked for vacuum leaks, and even checked the 4 bolts holding down the doghouse torque.
We ran some throttle/carb cleaner through the front of the dog house with it running & the intake hose off of the doghouse. That seemed to help the idle issue. I was thinking of taking the IAC off, but then the IAC & TPS would need all that readjustment stuff...
Yes, we took the orange ECM wire off to make it relearn every major step we took.
Burner: I would still run some more throttle body/carb cleaner through the from the front of the doghouse.
Check the Y fitting on this page's picture to see if the wastegate actuator vacuum line is hooked up right:
Quick Reference Page For the '86/'87 Turbo Regals and '89 Turbo T/A
If that's plumbed OK, then lack of punch is likely the wastegate solenoid failing, or the wastegate actuator (the can & assembly under the Turbo).
Anyone have info on testing the wastegate actuator to see if it works??
It runs smooth at part throttle. We wonder if the timing chain had jumped, but it runs so good at part throttle, I have doubts the chain jumped.
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