Red Armstrong Quad Air XP Plus Fuel Pump Information

[TurboTom72]

Hi everyone. I have some questions with regards to the Red Armstrong XP plus fuel pump. This is not a thread being started to determine who's pump is the best, but I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable members can chime in and help clarify the facts regarding these particular fuel pumps as a debate began in another general tech thread and I decided to start a different thread rather than hijack someone else's. The question is, does Red modify Walbro pumps, and/or does Walboro produce fuel pumps specifically for Quad Air built to Red Armstrong's specifications. The debate was between myself and TType6 and here are some snippets from our conversation in the tread Help,Help,Help. Here's basically how the conversation went:

I installed a Red Armstrong XP pump after I discovered I had one of the faulty pumps that Earl mentioned. That really pissed me off as I had changed a previous pump out as a precaution and replaced it with a new one that failed after only a couple hundred miles. The new Racetronix pumps are looking pretty good these days with many having greater output numbers than the Walboro pumps. My pump is basically a modified Walbro, but I would probably have looked to Racetronix had their newest line of pumps had been available at the time.

No,it is a pump that is built to Red's specs by Walbro. You can't buy a Walbro and modify it to flow as well as Red's. Still the same pump that it has always been. A very good flowing and reliable pump.

I agree that it is a very good pump, and I've had excellent luck with mine so far and would reccomend them to anyone. I really don't recall seeing any info anywhere that mentions what your claims are here. Basically what I've read on the various TB sites throughout the years is that Red modified GSS307 pumps by shimming the pressure relief spring which as a result achieved higher flow numbers. There is actually discussions on this forum about that exact subject matter and Racetronix actually makes mention of it. In July 2010, I orderd my XP plus from Quad Air. I'm pretty sure that Jane told me in conversation that Red modifies all the pumps himself in house, as I was curious, and asked her specifically about the pump in an effort to avoid buying another GSS340 pump, which died with under 300 miles on it. But that was several years ago, and things may have changed there since then. Also, and I could be wrong on this, but I don't think he is selling enough units to warrant Walbro to build pumps to his specs. If they did build to his specs, I think the cost per unit would be so high that I doubt he'd be able to sell them at $140ea.+ s/h and still be profitable. No offense, just saying. Anything is possible though, so I could be wrong too.

He does override the relief valve himself to insure that maximum pressure is available when it is needed most at maximum rpm and boost. This doesn't make the pump flow more volume. If the pump was the same internally as all the other 255s,it would flow the same. It flows more. Just like the regulator he sells,it looks like an exact duplicate of the one Kirban sells.It is on the outside,but not on the inside. If you come up with a modification to a product and ask a manufacturer to build the product with these modifications,it is common that they will only sell the modified product to you as you own the design. The industry rates pumps at a low pressure. The only way to determine which one of the 255s flows the best is to measure the flow at 70 lbs of pressure where we need them to flow. This is where Red's pumps shine.

Hi Dan, Sorry for us Hijacking your thread and turning it into a Red Armstrong fuel pump discussion. I'm going to end the debate here. TType6, although you raise some interesting points with regards to Red's pumps, you basically reiterated what I originally said. You claimed that walboro makes the pumps to Red's specs, so still basically a Walbro pump as they manufactured it, and you say that the pumps weren't modified, yet agree that Red shimmed the pressure relief, which, in my opinion, is a modification. So you are basically agreeing with my initial statement that the XP plus pump is a walbro pump modified by Red Armstrong at Quad Air. As our debate has resulted in the highjacking of Dan's tech support thread,and you now have sparked my interest about the topic, I am going to start a seperate thread so that some of the other long standing members can also chime in and possibly shed some light on the situation for both of us. I am sure others out there would be interested as well, and the purpose of this site is to convey accurate info to the masses. I will also put in a call to Red's shop tommorrow to see if they can shed some light on the situation as well. I will post up some of our convo here on the thread, and with the help of the community, maybe we can get some factual info. Not trying to bust stones, but really would like to know the whole story if possible.

So, that's basically it in a nutshell. Sorry for the novel, but that was what I've read and believed for several years now, and I really want to know if what TType6 is claiming is true. Thanks in advance guys!

 

[Racetronix]

Hi everyone. I have some questions with regards to the Red Armstrong XP plus fuel pump. This is not a thread being started to determine who's pump is the best, but I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable members can chime in and help clarify the facts regarding these particular fuel pumps as a debate began in another general tech thread and I decided to start a different thread rather than hijack someone else's. The question is, does Red modify Walboro pumps, or does Walboro produce fuel pumps specifically for Quad Air built to Red Armstrong's specifications. The debate was between myself and TType6 and here are some snippets from our conversation in the tread Help,Help,Help. Here's basically how the conversation went:
So, that's basically it in a nutshell. Sorry for the novel, but that was what I've read and believed for several years now, and I really want to know if what TType6 is claiming is true. Thanks in advance guys!

Why not call TI Automotive yourself instead of relying on forum hearsay.
Either way does it really matter. There are many good pumps on the market now which outperform what he has to offer.
There are links in our signature to many of them.

 

[87GN_70GS]

I'm not going to comment on the debate, I'm just offering some technical info. Regarding the pressure relief valve, my own testing (as well as common sense) has shown that modifying the pressure relief can (and does) alter fuel volume flowrate at pressures below the relief pressure. So, let's say a relief valve is set to be fully open at 100 psi, let's say it starts opening or "cracking" at 60 psi. Then in the pressure ranges of 60 to 100 psi, fuel volume flowrate will be different for releif valve vs. no releif valve. Below the cracking pressure, there will be no difference.

For some of the walbros I've tested, they start "peeing" a little fuel out of the releif slot around 50 or 60 psi depending on conditions.

Infer from that what you will.

 

[Racetronix]

I'm not going to comment on the debate, I'm just offering some technical info. Regarding the pressure relief valve, my own testing (as well as common sense) has shown that modifying the pressure relief can (and does) alter fuel volume flowrate at pressures below the relief pressure. So, let's say a relief valve is set to be fully open at 100 psi, let's say it starts opening or "cracking" at 60 psi. Then in the pressure ranges of 60 to 100 psi, fuel volume flowrate will be different for releif valve vs. no releif valve. Below the cracking pressure, there will be no difference.

For some of the walbros I've tested, they start "peeing" a little fuel out of the releif slot around 50 or 60 psi depending on conditions.

Infer from that what you will.

... and that is why we have adjusted all the Walbro GSS294M pump bypass valves. No rocket science there.

 

[TurboTom72]

Why not call TI Automotive yourself instead of relying on forum hearsay.
Either way does it really matter. There are many good pumps on the market now which outperform what he has to offer.
There are links in our signature to many of them.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter at all, only in principal. The XP pump is what I'm currently running, and I have no complaints. To be quite honest, I'll probably replace it with one of the newer pumps you've been recently advertising on the board here when it fails. The issue would never have been brought up if TType6 hadn't taken it upon himself to hijack a tech support thread by trying to correct my statement with unfounded information just to try to break balls. The point here is that people shouldn't spread bad info, period. In my opinion, saying that Red has pumps built to his specs by Walboro is not only absurd, it's just a load of crap. I can hardly fathom that Red is selling that kind of volume of pumps where Walboro would build pumps to his specs and still be able to sell them at comparable prices to other similar pumps available and turn a profit. If I'm wrong, Ttype6 should prove it by backing up his statements.

 

[Racetronix]

Honestly, it doesn't really matter at all, only in principal. The XP pump is what I'm currently running, and I have no complaints. To be quite honest, I'll probably replace it with one of the newer pumps you've been recently advertising on the board here when it fails. The issue would never have been brought up if TType6 hadn't taken it upon himself to hijack a tech support thread by trying to correct my statement with unfounded information just to try to break balls. The point here is that people shouldn't spread bad info, period. In my opinion, saying that Red has pumps built to his specs by Walboro is not only absurd, it's just a load of crap. I can hardly fathom that Red is selling that kind of volume of pumps where Walboro would build pumps to his specs and still be able to sell them at comparable prices to other similar pumps available and turn a profit. If I'm wrong, Ttype6 should prove it by backing up his statements. All he's proven so far is that he likes to try to hijack threads with unrelated and unfounded bullsh*t.

There are always those who will choose to believe this that or the other thing because of some obscure reason. Technical facts do not always win out over magical marketing or political alliances on these forums. Trying to convince someone that their modified pump is no better than one for substantially less is like trying to get them to swallow a bitter pill. Nobody likes to be told they spent their money unwisely and they will take that fight beyond the scope of logic and fact to defend their purchase. If you are smart enough to reason your way through marketing hype consider yourself one of the few enlightened people who are able to see outside the box. The sheep will do as they have always done.

 

[Mike Licht]

We all know that other than the relief valve it is impossible to modify the pump. I have had many conversations with TI about building special pumps I even sent them a PO for 1000 pumps once. The reply was they will not and have NEVER done it for ANYONE.
Mike

 

[TurboTom72]

Honestly, my whole purpose of this thread was to try to help keep the info as accurate as possible for the benefit of myself as well as others.

 

[TurboTom72]

Mike and Racetronix, thank you both for your input. I am glad some reputable vendors have given their opinions. I also placed a call to TI Automotive and I am awaiting a return call so I can get the info from the horses mouth, so to speak.

 

[TurboTom72]

Mike, I am loving the Rev x roller kit. Very nice quality kit! The pushrods you sent were exceptional! Very satisfied with everything. Thanks!
Tom

 

[Ttype6]

The question is, does Red modify Walboro pumps, or does Walboro produce fuel pumps specifically for Quad Air built to Red Armstrong's specifications.

There are two things we know about the Red Armstrong XP pumps. The first thing we know is that they flow better than any pumps on the market that look just like them. The second thing is that there's no way to modify them,for increased flow,after they've been assembled.

 

[Racetronix]

There are two things we know about the Red Armstrong XP pumps. The first thing we know is that they flow better than any pumps on the market that look just like them.

Really now?

 

[GNRick]

I have almost every GSXtra going back to the late 80's. Red has been in the game a long time and frequently wins whatever race class he is entered in. I have been a member here for several years and don't remember anybody complaining about his pumps. I have been thru three failed Walbros over the years. I put in one of Red's pumps 2 years ago and no issues have cropped up. I have read about needing to replace the return line with some of the new pumps out there and I would really like to avoid having to do that. At this point in time I am a firm believer in Red's pump and would recommend it to anybody.

 

[TLIMITED]

I have almost every GSXtra going back to the late 80's. Red has been in the game a long time and frequently wins whatever race class he is entered in. I have been a member here for several years and don't remember anybody complaining about his pumps. I have been thru three failed Walbros over the years. I put in one of Red's pumps 2 years ago and no issues have cropped up. I have read about needing to replace the return line with some of the new pumps out there and I would really like to avoid having to do that. At this point in time I am a firm believer in Red's pump and would recommend it to anybody.

X2,I have had Red's pumps in three of my cars and many friends that have used his pumps over the years and do not remember any of them failing.I was told years ago that they were modified Delco pumps but I'm not positive of that.I would just stick with what you know.

 

[Racetronix]

 

[Nick Micale]

There are two things we know about the Red Armstrong XP pumps. The first thing we know is that they flow better than any pumps on the market that look just like them. ...

I do NOT want to start a pissin' contest here, as Jack's comments are more polite than mine!

Who is the "we" that determined the XP flows "better than any pumps on the market that look just like them?"

Of the many internet BS "facts" posted here, this one is actually laughable!

I bet even Jack had to at least grin when he posted his reply.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

You are too funny. NOT REALLY

 

[Ttype6]

Really now?

any 255 lph pump.

 

[Ttype6]

When you accuse someone of being a sheep,you are accusing them of blindly following the crowd. That's obviously not the case here,but good name calling none the less.

 

[Ttype6]

If you are smart enough to reason your way through marketing hype consider yourself one of the few enlightened people who are able to see outside the box.

What marketing hype. There's no marketing at all for Red's pumps.