Bought my 87 GN new in 88 and it's time. Pulled the motor and it's getting a complete rebuild. Already bought a new 200 R4 from Art Carr in California and new Aluminum heads and intake from Champion. I am looking at making this thing a rocket ship!!! Lol. Any suggestions from the vast knowledge out there would be appreciated as to fuel system, exhaust, cam/crank options etc that has worked the best for you. The motor is completely stock and I would be replacing everything (against good advice)
Rebuild time
- Thread starter Bob1987GN
- Start date
Full Throttle Speed is a great vender. will you be doing the work yourself ? Steve has treated me good and I like there products. My short block came from Arizona GN built by Zimmerman Racing in Phoenix with TA performance parts.
At the time it was my best option and I'm 100% happy.
I fell Full Throttle has a good selection of well matched parts and knowhow
At the time it was my best option and I'm 100% happy.
I fell Full Throttle has a good selection of well matched parts and knowhow
SCOOBY DOO
BASED CANADIAN PATRIOT!!
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2007
Deep pockets.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Well there are different levels of rocket ship and that is what you must decide upon first. A horsepower goal will determine the parts you need to build the motor you want. If you need help with that, hit me up or a bunch of others who can steer you in the right direction.
an whatever you figure out what it will cost prob add 40% for "Oh I need that to"
Street rocketship or track rocketship?
I want a street rocket ship that I can take to the track but primarily street. Weekend driver. It’s my baby that I want to give a rebirth. After the comments I am starting to rethink my engine build. It is completely stock and there are many suggestions to keep it stock. Maybe just buy a block and put that together?
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2011
If your stock motor is still together and running pull it and put it to the side , find another block to build, then you will have 2 motors instead of ruining a stock one lol.
If you ever try to sell the car, having the original motor goes a long way.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
That will save you time in the long run and it keeps the downtime to a minimum.
Now decide on a hp goal. If you have never had a 700hp car build the motor and spec a turbo for it and use some self control to run at low boost levels and they you can turn it up to where you want it.
Decide on the fuel you want to use based on availability of it around you. If E85 is easily accessible use it. If not, pump gas and alky will get you there as well. The answer to that question will determine fuel pump or pumps, alky control kit, and injector size.
Here is what you need.
A good 109 block that is not bored .030 over
Forged rotating assembly.
3.59 stroke crank
6.350 forged rods
Forged pistons 9 to 1 CR
Steel center mains
ARP main stud kit
Ported and polished iron heads with new valves, retainers, and seats.
ARP head stud kit
Ported and polished intake manifold
65 or 70mm throttle body ( Machine the stock one or buy a new one)
212/212 hyd roller cam or better 218/212 is my fav
Roller rockers
New pushrods measured to fit.
RJC deep sump oil pan
Reworked front cover with high volume/high pressure pump
Turbo? HPT 64/66, or Comp 64/64 triple ball bearing will get you what you want. There will be many opinions on turbos here, do your research and go from there.
Your transmission will need to be built with all the hard parts to handle the torque.
PTC 9.5 lock up converter so you can have the best of both worlds. Lock up for cruising. 3200 stall speed to get the turbo to spin quicker.
Fuel pump can be a double pump set up or one big single. On E85, I would suggest a -8 feed/-6 return from the tank and back. Hot wire kit is an absolute must.
And then a good aftermarket ECM to make it all work. Look at MS3 or ECUGN they are priced right and do a real nice job. Holley is good too but it aint cheap. Go with what your builder will support and tune. If he does not do that there are other places that will tune it for you.
The ECM is necessary to tune the car and to data log which will be important. And in this scenario, you will start at low boost levels but want to turn it up to achieve rocket ship status. Tuners can remote in to make changes on it and you can send data logs to them so they can make informed decisions on it.
Cost? You will spend $25K to $35K to get it done.
TIMINATOR
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2020
E85, mebbie in other parts of the country, but here in Phoenix,AZ. you need a flex fuel sensor equipped operating system, as reported by several of my customers here. One circle jet boat racer has brought his hydrometer to most all of the FEW stations here that sell it.
His results chart shows from a low of 38% alky to the highest he has found of 70%. That explained the random "holed pistons," broken rings, and hammered bearings on his electronic fuel injected race boat engine.
His solution was to buy from the station he found that had the highest, but not consistent alky content, and then blend in his alky from the local VP vendor to make a consistent fuel for his over 13 to 1 compression race boat.
After about 2 years of this, he decided that there wasn't enough HP gain to bother with, and went back to race fuel.
Your results may vary in other parts of the country, but most folks I have spoken with here have given up on E 85.
Something to keep in mind.
TIMINATOR
His results chart shows from a low of 38% alky to the highest he has found of 70%. That explained the random "holed pistons," broken rings, and hammered bearings on his electronic fuel injected race boat engine.
His solution was to buy from the station he found that had the highest, but not consistent alky content, and then blend in his alky from the local VP vendor to make a consistent fuel for his over 13 to 1 compression race boat.
After about 2 years of this, he decided that there wasn't enough HP gain to bother with, and went back to race fuel.
Your results may vary in other parts of the country, but most folks I have spoken with here have given up on E 85.
Something to keep in mind.
TIMINATOR
TIMINATOR
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2020
Phoenix,AZ.
I have been asking the street/strip guys lately about their E 85 experiences because I'm building a 512" nasty motored 1972 Challenger that will run 9s on the motor and might dip into the 8s on squeeze. If I put it on E 85 I can get a pretty blue and cloudy Enviornmental license plate, don't have to smog it, and have unlimited use of carpool lanes.
At this point I will prolly just keep the compression down to about 11 to 1 and drive it around on pump gas, then dump a bit of Av gas in it when I go to the track.
I ran almost 12 to 1 in my 72 Chevelle street car and drove it around on regular 87 octane, that's what we have here. Then added a few gallons of Av gas for Friday nite. It ran 10.80s on street tires with 3000 stall and 3.73s thru the muffs with an iron oval port 454, P/S, P/B, and A/C back in 1988 with a few gallons of AV gas over the 87.
Just for giggles, I made a pass on all 87 one nite pedaling it to keep it out of detonation and it only ran 11.20s. That was respectable back in 1988 for a true street car. On squeeze and 20% Av gas it ran 9.90s.
The Challenger is 400 lbs lighter, has 4.10 gears, better tires, 60" more motor, much bigger aluminum heads, and a bigger solid roller cam.
I am thinking about a 3 gallon fuel cell with good gas and a solenoid switch over for the fuel system. That would be easy too.
TIMINATOR
I have been asking the street/strip guys lately about their E 85 experiences because I'm building a 512" nasty motored 1972 Challenger that will run 9s on the motor and might dip into the 8s on squeeze. If I put it on E 85 I can get a pretty blue and cloudy Enviornmental license plate, don't have to smog it, and have unlimited use of carpool lanes.
At this point I will prolly just keep the compression down to about 11 to 1 and drive it around on pump gas, then dump a bit of Av gas in it when I go to the track.
I ran almost 12 to 1 in my 72 Chevelle street car and drove it around on regular 87 octane, that's what we have here. Then added a few gallons of Av gas for Friday nite. It ran 10.80s on street tires with 3000 stall and 3.73s thru the muffs with an iron oval port 454, P/S, P/B, and A/C back in 1988 with a few gallons of AV gas over the 87.
Just for giggles, I made a pass on all 87 one nite pedaling it to keep it out of detonation and it only ran 11.20s. That was respectable back in 1988 for a true street car. On squeeze and 20% Av gas it ran 9.90s.
The Challenger is 400 lbs lighter, has 4.10 gears, better tires, 60" more motor, much bigger aluminum heads, and a bigger solid roller cam.
I am thinking about a 3 gallon fuel cell with good gas and a solenoid switch over for the fuel system. That would be easy too.
TIMINATOR
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2011
Straight out of the pump on long island in the winter is around 78% and i still make great power on it.
OP, like stated if you are serious about running E85, do yourself a favor and buy one of those cheap bottle testers and check your local fueling stations for ethanol content before committing and spending the $$ on the fuel system. Even where I am in the country with multiple ethanol plants within 100 miles some gas stations (mainly the big name outfits) will vary 5% and most stations run E70 year around.
I found a hand full that are truly E85 between April and December, and then they drop to E70 for a winter blend. I test mine at every fill up just to be sure.
I found a hand full that are truly E85 between April and December, and then they drop to E70 for a winter blend. I test mine at every fill up just to be sure.
a street car/rocketship must be purpose built for that task and requires a specific approach of power, where it is applied, and getting the car to put the power down in the areas of the road over a distance chosen to achieve the et.
there are many levels of street fast.
applying power on a racetrack is very different and requires a different ramp of power.
You must choose where you want the car to actually shine.
Then I will be happy to recommend a strategy untill then a parts list for unknown power and et is close to worthless.
