? on comp adj roller button
- Thread starter Abomb
- Start date
Also one more question. Engine is in car and I am trying to set camshaft endplay. Comp 206/206 with the adj button. Can I use plastigage to check cam endplay? I am not having very much luck with a dial indicator and the screwdriver deal. Right now with the button installed with no shims there seems to be 0 endplay. I am using a blue felpro gasket. Do these gaskets come in different thicknesses? Please excuse my ignorance this is the first time I've tried this thanks.
My cam was the same way, it seems like comp isn't machining the hole for the roller button deep enough.
I didn't feel comfortable trying cut the hole deeper myself, and I didn't want to machine the timing cover for more clearance since it was assembled and clean so I used 2 timing cover gaskets and the spray copper to glue them together.
So far so good.
I didn't feel comfortable trying cut the hole deeper myself, and I didn't want to machine the timing cover for more clearance since it was assembled and clean so I used 2 timing cover gaskets and the spray copper to glue them together.
So far so good.
I used a roller cam button with the spring on my roller cam install no problems...also was a comp cam...
as far as setting end play I screwed in two bolts at the rear of the cam (cam plug out of course) set my dial indicator on one bolt and set it to zero....then moved the cam forward with a pry bar on the other bolt.....006" and locked her down.
has been working great and zero noise out of a roller.....
Good luck :smile:
as far as setting end play I screwed in two bolts at the rear of the cam (cam plug out of course) set my dial indicator on one bolt and set it to zero....then moved the cam forward with a pry bar on the other bolt.....006" and locked her down.
has been working great and zero noise out of a roller.....
Good luck :smile:
ohhhhh did not know it was still in....thats a new one for me...maybe some one that has done it will chime in.
If the engine is still in the car, (of course its easier when its on the stand), you can use a dial indicator gauge with a magnetic base. The intake has to be off. Just set up the indicator so it touches a camshaft lobe. Then push the cam rearward or to the front to see what endplay you have. Just make sure the cam is either pushed back all the way or forward and the dial indicator set to zero before you check the clearance.
HTH.
HTH.
Ok I am pretty comfortable that I have the endplay set correctly. I had no luck with the dial indicator so I used the plastigage. I ended up getting .007 by using 2 cover gaskets and a .010 and a .005 shim. Torqued the cover down to spec with almost all the bolts even the water pump ones a bunch of times until I got it right.
Now I just realized the double roller timing chain on my old ATR roller won't work for this setup. I need the stock style timing chain that bolts to the cam. I'll figure it out eventually damn
Now I just realized the double roller timing chain on my old ATR roller won't work for this setup. I need the stock style timing chain that bolts to the cam. I'll figure it out eventually damn
BlackBandit
God loves Buicks!
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- Mar 29, 2003
Just out of curiosity how are you using plastigage? Also, have you called the cam manufacturer to see why there cam won't accept the button?
plastigage
Black Bandit as for the plastigage, I laid a strip on the front cover where the button rides and used a small piece of tape on each side to hold it there. Then I would install the front cover and torque it to spec with the cam and gaskets and button all in place. Then pull off the cover and check the reading. It took quite a few times of experimenting to get the right spec. I went real slow at first just putting the cover on and off with the bolts finger tight and didn't even bother with the plastigage until I got close. I ended up having to use two gaskets stacked to even have some play in the cam and then used the extra washers to get it perfect.
As far as the button goes, it is just like Slo91z described. It just appears the base of the button should sit a little deeper in the cam. As far as calling the manufacturer it didn't really cross my mind-after reading Slo91z response I thought maybe thats just the way they are. I don't think the button is going anywhere, it's touching the back of the cam and with such a tight endplay tolerance I don't think anything is going anywhere.
Also to be quite candid I don't really know what I'm doing
just trying to figure things out. Kind of frustrated with this car.
Black Bandit as for the plastigage, I laid a strip on the front cover where the button rides and used a small piece of tape on each side to hold it there. Then I would install the front cover and torque it to spec with the cam and gaskets and button all in place. Then pull off the cover and check the reading. It took quite a few times of experimenting to get the right spec. I went real slow at first just putting the cover on and off with the bolts finger tight and didn't even bother with the plastigage until I got close. I ended up having to use two gaskets stacked to even have some play in the cam and then used the extra washers to get it perfect.
As far as the button goes, it is just like Slo91z described. It just appears the base of the button should sit a little deeper in the cam. As far as calling the manufacturer it didn't really cross my mind-after reading Slo91z response I thought maybe thats just the way they are. I don't think the button is going anywhere, it's touching the back of the cam and with such a tight endplay tolerance I don't think anything is going anywhere.
Also to be quite candid I don't really know what I'm doing
just trying to figure things out. Kind of frustrated with this car.BlackBandit
God loves Buicks!
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
Well, if it were me I'd definitely figure out how to get the button to sit right and figure out how to measure end play with everything installed. See, when you do a cam install with the roller button things aren't as abc as they should be. In theory when you install the cam and have .010 end play you could take it apart and put a .005 shim in, put it together and end up with .005 end play. In practice gaskets crush slightly differently, bolts torque slightly differently and things just don't go together quite the same every time. This effect will be magnified with stacked gaskets. I'm sure you get that I'm saying with the plastigauge technique you'll never KNOW your cam is installed properly. Well, at least not until you take it apart. If it were me I'd call the cam manufacturer and see what they say. I know customer service sucks now days but it's a good first step. If you decide to go with what you got at least get a dial indicator on a lobe and measure the end play. If you take off the fuel pump block off plate you can use a screwdriver to pry the cam gear back and forth. I would wrap the screwdriver blade with a rag or something. Also, don't forget to leave the damper/tensioner out as a double roller chain will eat it.
Edit: Where you located? Maybe someone local who has done this would be willing to swing by and help out.
Edit: Where you located? Maybe someone local who has done this would be willing to swing by and help out.
Probably good advice on the cam button. The only way it could sit all the way into the cam to the lip that is machined on it is if the cam was drilled deeper. In this link is the button I am using. You can see the lip on it the base. Right now it sits in the cam about halfway to the base. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/284868-adjustable-roller-cam-button.html I'll go take a pic so you can see how far it's in.
Also I know what your saying about gasket crush etc, When I got the .007 reading I did it two more times with fresh plastigage and torqued the bolts to the same spec each time and I got .007 both other times. I used almost all the bolts and even put on the water pump so I think it should be the same on final assembly?
Also I know what your saying about gasket crush etc, When I got the .007 reading I did it two more times with fresh plastigage and torqued the bolts to the same spec each time and I got .007 both other times. I used almost all the bolts and even put on the water pump so I think it should be the same on final assembly?
I use roller button from FULL THROTTLE SPEED - Item Description Page
Its not a spring it come with shims Pic is wrong.
also I hope this helps
I just went threw the same thing look at post #25 that worked great.......
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/288223-roller-cam-button.html
Shaun
Its not a spring it come with shims Pic is wrong.
also I hope this helps
I just went threw the same thing look at post #25 that worked great.......
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/288223-roller-cam-button.html
Shaun
I've been around a few of these cams and roller button's (not a ton of them, but at least 3-4), and I have never seen one that sat all the way back to the lip.
I can also confirm that the lip on the "button holder", or whatever it's called, does not sit flush with the front of the cam. As long as it is fully seated, you are good to go there.
In fact, to give you some details on my screwup (alluded to in in post #25 that Reaper posted the link to), I was trying and trying to get some end play and every time I bolted the timing cover on I got nothing - cam was obviously touching the timing cover, because it would not budge AT ALL. Not realizing it was the timing chain that was making contact with the inside of the cover, I had all the shims out, tried to drive the button holder in deeper, and so on. In desperation (should have searched the board first, but in my defense, I had installed a roller before with this same setup and not had any problems, so I felt like I knew what I was doing), I pulled the button holder out of the cam, zapped some of the back off so it would sit deeper in the cam. Reinstalled it, still no endplay. So did it again! Got it to where the lip sat flush with the cam, and still no end play. That's when I hit the board and found out about the potential timing chain issue. Zapped off that tab, and hey, now I have like 1/8" of endplay. Crap!
So then I had to make some shims to put behind the button holder to push it back out to where it had been in the first place. What a fiasco! So don't do what I did. If you are having to double gasket the timing chain cover to get enough endplay, then I suspect you are running into the same issue I did, where the timing chain is contacting the little tab that is on the inside of the timing chain cover. Check it out and see.
A final note - I spent some time moving the cam back and forth without the timing chain cover on, and watching the dial indicator, and developing a feel for what the proper endplay looked and felt like. Then once I had the timing chain cover on for good, I could pry on the cam and see and feel that it was right and not have any lingering doubts that I had too much, or not enough, end play. It was a comforting final check.
John
In fact, to give you some details on my screwup (alluded to in in post #25 that Reaper posted the link to), I was trying and trying to get some end play and every time I bolted the timing cover on I got nothing - cam was obviously touching the timing cover, because it would not budge AT ALL. Not realizing it was the timing chain that was making contact with the inside of the cover, I had all the shims out, tried to drive the button holder in deeper, and so on. In desperation (should have searched the board first, but in my defense, I had installed a roller before with this same setup and not had any problems, so I felt like I knew what I was doing), I pulled the button holder out of the cam, zapped some of the back off so it would sit deeper in the cam. Reinstalled it, still no endplay. So did it again! Got it to where the lip sat flush with the cam, and still no end play. That's when I hit the board and found out about the potential timing chain issue. Zapped off that tab, and hey, now I have like 1/8" of endplay. Crap!
So then I had to make some shims to put behind the button holder to push it back out to where it had been in the first place. What a fiasco!
So don't do what I did. If you are having to double gasket the timing chain cover to get enough endplay, then I suspect you are running into the same issue I did, where the timing chain is contacting the little tab that is on the inside of the timing chain cover. Check it out and see.A final note - I spent some time moving the cam back and forth without the timing chain cover on, and watching the dial indicator, and developing a feel for what the proper endplay looked and felt like. Then once I had the timing chain cover on for good, I could pry on the cam and see and feel that it was right and not have any lingering doubts that I had too much, or not enough, end play. It was a comforting final check.
John
BlackBandit
God loves Buicks!
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
Not all the way in but he shouldn't have to stack gakets.
That's a great point about the tab in the cover hitting the chain! I forgot all about that.
That's a great point about the tab in the cover hitting the chain! I forgot all about that.
I set the end play with no timing chain on, so nothing should be hitting there. In fact my old timing chain won't even go on. I need a different kind now. The stock cover from the factory is what I am using so I don't know why I need to stack gaskets?
Reaper thanks I will try the indicator in that other place to double check my plastigage reading.
Reaper thanks I will try the indicator in that other place to double check my plastigage reading.
