New member looking to buy a GN

pmesfun

Active Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Hello,

I'm looking to purchase a 87 GN with 109K miles, original engine, and transmission

Recent work:
-front shocks
-front tires
-brake pads

Upgrades are:
-PT 51 turbo(recently rebuilt)
-Walbro 307 fuel pump
-Quad air performance chip
-ESP coil pack
-Aftermarket headers and down pipe with cut out plates
-Aftermarket boost gauge , knock gauge and air/fuel ratio gauges

Vehicle Condition
-Exterior: has been repainted, would rate at an 8/10
-Interior: good condition, no apparent wear or damage 9/10
-Wheels: 10/10
-Blue/Clear Title

What would be a fair price to pay for this GN?


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Thanks
 
I'd say 15-18K, if trans shifts good (no 2-3 flair), engine leaks down good, Not a bondo bucket, clean title, etc.
You might be able to get it for a bit less. I wouldn't pay too much more unless it's super clean.

Welcome to the site.
Let us know if you have any more questions.

Mike Barnard
 
Opinions will vary. When I was in the market for mine, it seemed like everyone found fault with every car I found, and I initially perceived it negatively. However after I watched the market for a couple of years, I was able to ask questions members posed here and when I finally found mine, it was obvious to me. Helpful folks I am sure gonna chime in with their assessment, but keep in mind each of us has different things we look for, and we may not always agree on how heavyily it would impact what we would pay.

With the limited information provided, I humbly submit the following viewpoint for consideration towards the overall price of the car:

I discount the fuel pump, gauges, performance chip, and potentially the coil pack since the car is 28 years old all of these items should have been replaced by now. I think it is fair to say when a part goes out, most folks put in upgrades.
109k / 28 years = about 3900 miles per year average which sounds good, and adds value. However the history of the car comes into play. If there are 3 owners on the car, and one owner put on 60K in the last 3 years.. that paints a different picture and reduced value IMO.
Headers, Turbo, and exhaust are the 'meat' of the performance value that you would pay for with this car. To me, the date this was all done is super important. A rebuilt turbo is NOT a bad thing (especially if Bison did it hehe), but if this turbo was blown this past summer, it gives me the impression that someone tried out a new combo and it didn't work out. If the turbo was put on 10 years ago and was just rebuilt a year ago, it paints a different picture.

Shocks, tires, and brakes and brakes add value, but the $$$ is smaller if you can do those things yourself. The car appears to present well in the pictures, both inside and out, and that adds value.

I would take the owners asking price, and see what else you could get if you lived anywhere else in the country. Do a search on ebay of COMPLETED auctions. compare what those cars offered condition wise compared to their asking price. Look at the ones that actually sold and their final sales price. Get some idea of what prices cars are NOT going to sell at and go from there. No two GN's are the same, so it is going to be a grey area when it comes to valuation. Recently a car was listed for sale on this board that was an 86 with around 89k on the clock, had a moonroof, some engine mods, and I think his asking price was 16k and I think it sold last month (or at least he isn't selling it right now according to the post).

I STRESS that without interviewing each owner, and examining/comparing both cars, and their histories it would be impossible to say which one provided the most value. My point however is, that when I started my search for my car, I would have thought a 109k mile car should be less expensive that a 89k car. If that is your current logic too, then you should be paying less than 16k for the one you are showing. (You know.. based of this ONE car I compared it with hehe)

Don't limit yourself by thinking 'only local'. Getting a familiarity with what's out there and how much folks want for them is essential in evaluating the value in what you have found. I will offer that in my observations that in the past two years April/May the biggest selection of cars were available, but all had higher prices (When warm weather hits is usually when folks get the itch for a toy so higher demand). September/October owners were most open to negotiating price if they lived in a snowfall region. (They wanted to avoid putting the car in storage again).

I hope this opinion helps you in your search. These cars drive like no other, and are addicting, but can seem like they are a vacuum cleaner to your bank account if you get one at the wrong stage of its life. I didn't believe people when they told this to me in during my search, but if you can be patient, and look at lots of cars, you will 'know' when you have found the car you were looking for.

Good Luck!
 
I appreciate both of your replies.

I was mistaken the turbo was rebuilt by the 3rd owner by Majestic turbo in Dallas(4.6 stars on Google). The current seller is the 4th owner, but he knows the 2nd and 3rd owner, all in the same city in Texas. Original owner was in Alabama. According to carfax's available records from 92 to 97 it was driven from 39K to 81K.

Mileage breakdown
87 to 92: 0K to 39K, est. average of 7.8K/yr
92 to 97: 39 to 81K, est. average of 8.4K/yr
97 to 13: 81K to 103K, est. average of 3.6K
13 to 15:103K to 109K, est. average of 3K/yr

Also, it has been a southern car but I will check for rust or bodywork(bondo, misalignment, panel gaps, underbody condition). In 97 it was involved in a minor accident, driver front fender was replaced.

I have read the turbo regal's buyers guide and plan to look at everything on the car this Saturday. I want to get it for around 13.5K to 13.8K and willing to pay up to 14.5K since I know there may be better GNs out there and this has been passed around more than I like. I have looked nationwide for GNs but I feel more comfortable buying close to home. If anything this will be an experience to help me find the right one.
 
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Go on internet auctions and compare to those cars and the prices,theres about ten
Gns on there rite now. Couple high milage 87s also. Its up the page. Maybe that can help you decide.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I looked at them all and based on what those GNs went for and their mileage I will offer 13.5K and not much higher. I can always wait until next fall when these GNs go up for sale.
 
Good on you for checking out that mileage break down. It does sound like the car wasn't driven into the ground. (Provided the mileages wasn't saved because it was constantly breaking down hehe). Give thought to your support structure. Members here have been willing to tag to give a second set of eyes on a car for a potential owner. It couldn't hurt to post in your regions board to see if anyone near you would be up for it. It would jump start your relationship with other TR owners in your area, who woudl be the same folks you might lean on for help. Saturday may bee too short notice, but people on here are passionate about these cars, so ya never know.

It sounds like you are for sure being level headed and willing to be patient which is a BIG plus. There are a few stories of heartbreak on these boards from folks that were a but too impulsive with their purchase. It also sounds as though you are totally up for doing homework on a car. So a couple of other thoughts for you when considering price. A no rust car is indeed worth its weight in value for sure. Other than blown gaskets, rust is the #1 killer of these cars IMO.

If you buy a car and for whatever reason you start to have problems.. maybe it idles rough, sputters, or stalls. Or even say it runs fabulous, but isn't quite as quick as you wanted it to be and are looking to dial it in with either a good tune or by adding performance parts. If you ask for help on the board, folks will be happy to try to help, but they will have lots of detailed questions about the cars build. Since you are still looking for a car, getting familiar with the questions that members here will ask to someone who has these problems will enable you to ask more questions to a current owner about a potential candidate. This will enable you to draw closer comparisons to other cars for sale. Just look in the general tech area for folks having issues and the ensuing threads. I am positive you can come up with some talking points with a current owner to give you a better feel for a car. When you talk to a few owners, you will find that not all of them are equal either.

The number one, hands down, first question that you will be asked when you solicit help from the board will be scanmaster information. If you are buying a car that doesn't that doesn't have a scanmaster, but has had performance upgrades it raises a conversation point. There are guys on this board who are like GN Whisperers and I am sure could dial in a car off sound and smell. BUT is a current owner one of them? One he transfers ownership to you, are you going to be able to? When I bought mine, i scrutinized any car that had more than just replacement upgrades if have didn't have one. Owners who just drive the car and upgrade parts when they break I think are different than those that look to seek more zing. The car you posted with the upgrades you listed seems like it could teeter in either direction. A scanmaster is about a $250 part, but you will need to install it. If the car doesn't already have one that is going to be money out of your pocket the first time you have an issue with your car. Apples to Apples a car that has one has $200 more in value.

Other questions members will ask will be things like type of injectors, what is the boost set at, what MAF systems does it use, does the car have alcohol injection system. I am sure you have already found this link but http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/info-for-new-turbo-regal-owners.380856/

This may seem irrelevant since you are just looking for price advice, but if you make a checklist of questions to ask it not only allows for better comparisons, it helps you get a good idea of how much the current owner knows about the car. Additionally if things on the spring cleaning list have not been done to a car, you can bet you will end up doing it on your dime. The cost of parts, labor (assuming you cannot complete yourself), and a scanmaster could easily be the difference between a 13500 car and a 15000 car. Cheaper isn't always better. If I am gonna have to spend that extra 1500 anyway, I would rather spend it upfront on a car that has a history with that configuration, rather than having me blow my head gaskets cause I finally fixed the issue that the previous owner was compensating his boost against.

I think most would agree you want to buy the most car that you can afford.
 
I passed on this one. I found an older gentleman with two 87 GNs. He says both have around 70K on the body, both were just repainted and had the engines rebuilt. One is for 15K the other for 17K. The 17K GN also was rebuilt with stronger internals he claims and was reupholstered, not sure why a 70K mile car would need to be reupholstered but I am going to look at them on Sunday.
 
I passed on this one. I found an older gentleman with two 87 GNs. He says both have around 70K on the body, both were just repainted and had the engines rebuilt. One is for 15K the other for 17K. The 17K GN also was rebuilt with stronger internals he claims and was reupholstered, not sure why a 70K mile car would need to be reupholstered but I am going to look at them on Sunday.
Any rebuilt motor is an automatic red flag imo. Need to find out WHO did the rebuild, what it entailed, paperwork? and post that info here.
 
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Hey guys I ended up buying the GN in my original post. The car is really clean. The seller's pictures did not do the car justice.

The was a lot paperwork shows all that was done to the car, rebuilt turbo, front end rebuild, etc, all the way back to 1997. The paint on the car is actually a 10/10, just needs a good polishing and sealant. No leaks from engine, transmission pan gasket was a little wet, but I will be changing all the fluids so the gasket will be replaced. No rust at all, underbody was really clean, gas tank looked brand new. The seller knew the 2nd and 3rd owner and they were older guys who never abused or overheated. I checked the oil disptick and it was clean, didn't notice any impurities in oil, not sure that would be able to but I checked. Same with the transmission.

Test drive, car tracked straight and shifted really good like a new transmission, no 2nd to 3rd flair, It has a knock gauge and it barely hit the red zone under ~65%, didn't knock or ping at all. At idle the engine is very quiet, no pinging on knocking. Aftermarket oil change shows about 60 psi while driving and the coolant gauge about 170 degrees.

When I first got there I looked over the car for a good 30 minutes before I started it. No random aftermarket wires except for the gauges and fuel pump kill switch. Nothing from the interior or trunk was missing. Also the car is really comfortable, rides really nice and no rattles in the interior. On the that doesn't work is the A/C, blower and heat work. The compressor is hooked up but didn't engage, could be just freon.

Let me know how I did. I attached pictures I took.







 
Alot of options for insurance. How much you plan on driving car, my state has antique insur.,i think most guys try to get a fixed rate or amount policy. I know there are some specific companies they use. Perhaps do search or maybe one of them will chime in. My inlaws are agents so i use them.
 
I quoted with Hagerty at 15K Agreed Value, but there is wait time for application approval. I plan to drive it definitely less than 5K. I'm waiting for a call back from the insurance agent so I can get it insured, if only for six months through current insurnace, then find better insurance. I just need it insured so I can drive it home tomorrow.

Already started ordering parts, I'm very excited.
 
Where are you located? It would really be in your best interest to find someone near you that works on gn's to take a look with you before you start buying parts, most all gn parts reasonably exspensive and you dont want to get going on the wrong foot either buying things you really dont need or things that are not really any good for your car. Its a step by step process,one step at a time.
 
Dallas, TX. I just ordered scanmaster and once I figure out all the specs needing to order a turbo tweak street chip I will replace the old one. Then make sure it is tuned correctly. I have alot of research to do. Mostly I just want get all the chassis strengthening braces to increase rigidity before I do anything major. Maybe alky some time in March.
 
I tell ya, no matter how many pics someone takes of their car, I am of the opinion the BEST one will be the first one they take of it in their own garage or driveway. Congrats on your new ride!!! She's a beauty!!!
 
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