New Fast XFI install, now runs crappy

[Razor]

True, guess you can tie the system pressure output signal into the nitrous input of the Gen7 and when the system pressurizes past "X".. it activates the nitrous tables and reduces overall fueling. No alky.. keeps your fuel tables alone.

On the XFI I set my positive correction to +25%. That way if there is no alky. the WB can then throw in whatever fuel is needed to keep things in line.

We when running methanol injection are replacing a portion of our fuel.

 

[Blazer406]

Any more updates?

 

[Phoneguy]

Still trimming VE tables. Just installed a 4" cold air kit from Cottons and a Power Plate, she woke up quite a bit with all that fresh air!! She is running much better. Getting an Art Carr NLU converter( 3400-3600 ) and all the parts for my tranny. Hope to have it at the Midwest Challenge.
Thanks
Bryan

 

[Epitome]

Holy cow........just wait until you see the difference that converter is going to make if you are still using the stock one with that combo. It will seem like a completely different car. I know.....Jack can tell you about the stock combo he did for me (similar to yours) before I went Stage 2.

 

[quickt]

The Gen 7 has a really neat feature called negative nitrous fueling. While the name sounds a little scary, the idea of it is pretty cool. When a nitrous stage is activated, you have the "negative" option which will subtract, rather than add, a specified mass of fuel from the overall fuel calculation. The idea is that you can activate an alky system, spray in XXX lb/hr of alky, and simultaneously remove that same mass of fuel from the main supply. The result is that rather than adding alky, you replace some portion of gas with alky. It seemed to be a nice clean way to realize the positive effects of spraying alky into the airstream without an associated overly-rich condition.

Any thoughts?

Hi Craig. These FAST XFI guys have no idea what they are missing.

 

[Blazer406]

I assume letting the fast 02 correct in closed loop doesn't work that well?

 

[JCotton]

Hi Craig. These FAST XFI guys have no idea what they are missing.

Ya we do...... the beauty of FAST..... we've been enjoying it for a long time now.... and so haven't our customers...

 

[Epitome]

If there becomes a must have feature, even if they steal the idea from someone else, you can just flash the XFI box and add it

 

[Craig Smith]

Hi Craig. These FAST XFI guys have no idea what they are missing.

Well, the XFI isn't short on cool features either, but I am surprised that the Gen 7 isn't more popular in the Buick world than it is. There are lots of cool features that the product has, and I really like the way their tuning software works. The whole Tau-X fueling thing has its merits, but people seem to hate it, and there is nothing intuitive about how to use that feature. It seems to be the main thing that people don't care for when I get feedback.

The Gen 7 Buicks that I know of (and you are involved with many of them) work well and they are happy.

 

[JCotton]

Well, the XFI isn't short on cool features either, but I am surprised that the Gen 7 isn't more popular in the Buick world than it is.

I think there is a simple answer to that statement and I'm sure you know as well as I and many others do. The FAST Classic system blew ACcell out of the water when it first hit the market. There was no comparison in ease of use, self correcting fuel tables and superiority in every area. There isn't a track one can go to without someone with FAST experience if help is needed. Lonnie seems to be getting a handle on the Gen7, obviously he doesn't have the experience with a FAST and over the years still doesn't have the necessary skills to help someone with a problem. Like Lonnie prefers to work with a GEN7, I prefer to work with a FAST, thats my comfort area.

 

[Otto J]

On automatic turbo cars if the convertor is matched properly to the combo isee no need for any special fueling on spoolup.

Their spoolup feature would definetly be a great addition on a stick shift car

 

[Craig Smith]

No doubt that the FAST system is easy to use and has a history of producing excellent results. And it definitely was a huge jump up from the Gen 6 when it was introduced.

Each system will definitely always have its own legions of dedicated customers. I've had the unique experience of learning both systems from the inside out, and it's been interesting. If either one were mine to do over, there would be a lot of changes to each. However, I do believe both to be great systems, each with its own strengths and weaknesses.

The Gen 7 has a lot of cryptic stuff in it and is often viewed as more complicated, but it is an extremely capable system that is more feature-rich than many people realize. The nitrous controls, diagnostics, multiple fuel and timing tables, and accessory controls are very nice and offer more flexibility than any other system in this price range.

The FAST system is still the easiest to learn, and has a long history of producing great results on the street and track as well. While the many available tuning aspects of the Gen 7 would probably allow for superior "under the microscope" results, I think they may have crossed the point of diminishing returns in some aspects. There are things the Gen 7 can do that the FAST system can't, and someone like me can set up data logs that show what these things are. However, beyond the data logs, some of those things have little or no noticeable impact on driveability, economy, or power. Given that fact, many people prefer the simple and effective methodology of the FAST.

So there's some of my thoughts... now that I have completely hijacked this thread (for which I apologize). I really like both systems and will maintain my position up here on the fence.

 

[norbs]

Now if accel could make a datalogger that actually worked that would be great. I don't think they do enough testing before releasing a product to the public. They will just not respond to any sort of emails at all.

 

[Craig Smith]

Now if accel could make a datalogger that actually worked that would be great. I don't think they do enough testing before releasing a product to the public. They will just not respond to any sort of emails at all.

They don't respond to the website emails, and haven't for some time. Mr. Gasket should have taken that down, as it was discussed.

Before you publicly condemn a company again, you better be sure that you don't have issues of your own that are contributing to the problem. Seems like we've done this before.

 

[gospeed.racer]

Although we start ours off of my datalogger button instead of the keyboard or auto settings-In all of our Gen7 installs, we have yet to have a datalogger issue that wasnt customer related

....and there is nothing intuitive about how to use that feature.

My biggest complaint, by far, about the Gen7 is the lack of literature. I mean, i have the book- the thin one and the thick one- but (only example I could think of..) where do you look to find out if the transbrake input needs to be ground or hot? Well we know by now, but so much of what we do on installs is just from doing it. I would love to know all the stuff we are missing out on by not having a decent book that explains inputs and outputs. Maybe there is a "missing manual" out there somewhere

Still love the Accel. No sticks and stones:tongue:

 

[quickt]

I think there is a simple answer to that statement and I'm sure you know as well as I and many others do. The FAST Classic system blew ACcell out of the water when it first hit the market. There was no comparison in ease of use, self correcting fuel tables and superiority in every area. There isn't a track one can go to without someone with FAST experience if help is needed. Lonnie seems to be getting a handle on the Gen7, obviously he doesn't have the experience with a FAST and over the years still doesn't have the necessary skills to help someone with a problem. Like Lonnie prefers to work with a GEN7, I prefer to work with a FAST, thats my comfort area.

Hi Jack,
I do have the skilZ to tune and help with a FAST and others. IMO the XFI is warmed over Classic and the software is more like some freeware you would find on web. Each to their own. I will install and tune Gen7, XFI, BS3, Motec, AEM. I do prefer the Gen7. I cant argue the benefits of the Gen7 v/s XFI or any other system with someone who only has experience with one system.

 

[quickt]

Now if accel could make a datalogger that actually worked that would be great. I don't think they do enough testing before releasing a product to the public. They will just not respond to any sort of emails at all.

Norbs once again I have no idea what you are talking about. I had the first data logger sold and have never had an issue with its operation or any other data logger other than with wideband operation with 16volt systems. That problem has been resolved for sometime.

 

[quickt]

Although we start ours off of my datalogger button instead of the keyboard or auto settings-In all of our Gen7 installs, we have yet to have a datalogger issue that wasnt customer related




My biggest complaint, by far, about the Gen7 is the lack of literature. I mean, i have the book- the thin one and the thick one- but (only example I could think of..) where do you look to find out if the transbrake input needs to be ground or hot? Well we know by now, but so much of what we do on installs is just from doing it. I would love to know all the stuff we are missing out on by not having a decent book that explains inputs and outputs. Maybe there is a "missing manual" out there somewhere

Still love the Accel. No sticks and stones:tongue:

Simple all inputs are 12 volts all outputs are grounds. Use the F1 key from any screen.

 

[quickt]

There are things the Gen 7 can do that the FAST system can't,

AMEN brother

 

[quickt]

Last month I installed a Turbonetics CPT66 BB( upgraded from a 9 month old TA49), new DP with external gate, Razors ALKY. The car was running pretty good for a stock converter. Absolutely NO KNOCK.I just installed a Fast XFI, and 72 lb injectors, gapped the plugs at a tight .032, set fuel pressure to 43 with line off, set TPS. The car wont idle smooth at all, even off-idle sucks. It has a dead spot in it.I have to keep my foot on the gas at a stoplight to keep it from dying. It seems to run ok at slight to moderate acceleration but at WOT the knock guage goes off the chart even with the ALKY turned up.
I am sending log files to Jack Cotton to review but it may take days to get an answer or any reprogramming done. Anyone have any ideas? More fuel pressure? Less fuel pressure? Wrong gap? Bad TPS? Bad WBO2?
Thanks
Bryan

Need to do a little learning on your own. The dead spot is more than likely a lean spot. Jack will get you hooked up.