Looking at New Trucks - need input/help

H

HRpartsNstuff

Member
Joined
May 27, 2001
We are needing a truck more than the SUV we have now, and need more power to pull with, so we are looking at a new truck with all the deals going on. First of all, I hear mixed opinions that the employee disc are not a lot better than the previous sales when you get to the bottom line, then others say it's the best it will ever be. Anyone got the inside track that can pass on some facts?? I assume everone gets the same deal & no haggling now, unless they get you on the interest rates or??

Next, without getting into an emotional Chevy vs Ford battle (on a die-hard Buick site, know where that would go :) ), I am looking for FACTual input to help make a decision. I am getting some concerning opinions from die-hard Chevy guys that make me consider the Fords as well. Not intersted in Dodge or others for various reasons. Now that they all have employee pricing, they are about the same dollar for dollar so that's not the concern (all too high). Here is what I have so far:

CHEVY / GMC
2500 - 6.6 Duramax Diesel
Heard they have injector issues in past, and pre-2002 is not that great. Also heard new ones seem down on power compared to earlier years. They look great & can pull anything with ease, but haven't test driven one yet. One tried & true GM guy said if you want looks, buy a GM. If you want to work & last longer, buy a Ford. He always had Chevy's & says this, not like wants to prefer a Ford. Not thrilled with older Chevy braking ability & new 1500's wih drum brakes on the back, and hear issues with 1500 front wheel bearings going out before warranty period is up (light duty design).

Ford
F-250 - 6.0 Super Duty Diesel
I see they make comparable (some say better, some worse, but basically same) power with a smaller motor, so they should (in theory) make better mileage. I test drove one, super smooth ride, plenty of power, rides a bit high & intimidated wife a bit driving it. They stopped super easy and seem well built. A little plain inside, but OK. A fellow Buick guy with a used car lot says the Chevy trucks always seem to have more issues after the sale than Ford or Dodge, so he limits buying/selling GM trucks. It was a bit noisy (motor) for my taste, but the diesel smell didn't bother me & was barely noticeable. Never had one, so new experience for me. Tried the F-150's which would do OK for me, but the ride was a little too sporty feel & bothers my neck too much. Kinda surprising, the 250 rode way better than the 150.

Either one will have more than enough power & be fine for me. Just don't want a huge payment for many years & have to deal with repairs/issues towards the end when the miles are up there. Got that now :( Also, any input on daily driving a diesel in cold weather climates & maintenance costs vs gas would be helpful too. As I said, getting into new territory here. The pickings are getting slim out there on all, and sale ends soon, but hate to react on emotions with such a large purchase. Trying to be as objective as possible. Want & need the most for my money & be a smart purchase. My only personal experience is with a '99 Ford Expedition. Tows great, needs a little more power, go 70 with trailer thru windy hwy with no problem feeling safe. Got some rust going on bottoms of doors not thrilled about, but partly my fault for not dealing with it during warranty period. They covered that longer than the rest & didn't catch that till it was too late. Had the dreams of a street rod with turbo V-8 to tow with, but not enough time or $$$ for that.

PS- Narrowed it down to crew cab (4-door) short bed NON-dually. That keeps it short & take 4 people places & easier to manuever. Need the wife to be able to use it for pickup/deliveries too.

Thanks in advance!!!
 
My buddy GNSCOTT here, has had two duramax 2500 chebbies.

It's a great truck, 2004 and 2005 are very similar.

No injector issues up to 45K miles on the 2004 and no issues other than a loose wiper when he operated them in an ice storm without melting first. ;)

It's a great riding strong truck and it's been loaded up lots of times with heavy furniture, long bed.

It will pull a ton. No chips/programmer or aftermarket parts yet on this one.

About 18mpg or so mixed driving.

Heated leather, decent factory sound system, only thing "missing" is a Nav. system. Lots of room in the extended cab. version for kids and more stuff.

Only other brand truck he had was a 2002 Dodge turbo diesel, that was the LOUDEST vehicle I have ever been in, and rode terribly, very strong however and no real issues with it other than 20% hearing loss. :p

The Dodges are quieter now. :)

PS: Fords suck. :D
 
Heres my 2 cents. I have been a chevy fan forever. When I went to buy a new truck (3/4 ton) I drove them all. I ended up with the 04 f250 powerstroke 6.0. I love it. has more interior room than chevy and dogde, more power than both according to the magazine I bought. The only problem I have have had is the top turbo pipe that goes in the engine blew off a couple times. I took it back to the dealership and they fix it with a new pipe and a much much better clamp. It has more power pulling a 26 foot enclosed trailer with the gn inside than it needs! :p I gets around 17 to 18 mpg local driving and 19 on interstates. towing it was getting around 12mpg. just my 2cents.
 
Chevy

I have an 02 Silverado. I like the ride, the V8 mileage is good for a truck, but the fit and finish is crappy. It has the extended cab and the doors don't seal well. I guess they tried to save weight by putting thinner steel in the roof.
If you get a Chevy, give a good look and test drive first.
 
03 F350 crew cab 4X4 long bed 6.0 psd . milage-average 15 city, 18+ hwy, 13+ towing 42' gooseneck enclosed. to make a long story short, dealer kept flashing the computor milage kept droping & did not shift corectly, found a dealer that installed the asbuilt flash & runs like a wet dream & the milage is back (as stated above). had 1 inj. go bad at about 8k & intercooler hose blow off twice.
don't get me wrong I love this truck but I wish I still had my old 93 1/2 idi 7.3 Banks turbo truck back, it got 16 mpg every where I went.
 
which truck?

until recently (my choice) I was fleet supervisor for a large county,
we have about 1000 vehicles, and about 650 of those are trucks,
I'll give you my opinion, as long as you realize everyone has one. ( opinion)
]Dodge....([/B]diesel) were noisy now much quieter, powerful as any other, interior not as plush as gm or Ford, PROBLEM... out of 50 or so 04 -05, we have had more than 10 trans problems,( needed major work) and between 12-15 rear end problems, and alot , of emission problems, ( fuel evap). dealer not real cooperative on waranty work!
Ford. diesel, powerful! quiet, pulls as good as others, good fit and finish,
a few trans problems, had one with less than 30 mi take a dump,
Problem..... ECM on 04 all take a dump, more than 20 of them have left our guys stranded, also front wheel bearings on4x4 have problems, failed within 25k mi. ( 5 of them) . 05 are better all around, we have had some problems with ( I think it was ) cam sensor, failed, no start , ( 3 of those)
dealer VERY helpful on waranty work!
GM most comfortable of the 3 , interior like a car, most quiet of the 3,
early duramax had trans problems, and a few computer problems, ( maybe 3 -4 ) I usually purchase based on cost, but have bought nuthing but Duramax lately, ( 36 last time around) No failures of any kind , a few recalls! but dealer got call from GM, and is now VERY cooperative.
towing is same as others, 2 friends have chips in theirs, and it IS amazing!!

Feel free to ask any questions, I'll give you my straight answer.
Good Luck
cruzn57
 
As a die hard GM guy, I can tell you that I wouldn't drive any truck but the Ford Superduty line. (And I've owned them all over the years). I LOVE my Excursion Powerstroke diesel!!!
As for employee pricing it's real. In Ford's case anyway, it's A plan pricing, which anybody in the know will tell you, is exactly what any Ford employee will pay, AND if there's rebates etc. they're included.
So, SHOP.

As most will tell you, Chevy makes a good truck, but unfortunately (or not) Ford's quality, fit and finish is still better. I still can't figure out where GM thinks they're going.

Anyway, just my .02
 
I'm with Dave. I work on em all, I liked the powersmoke 7.3 but the 6liter is very impressive. There are some issues with driveability that ford cant seem to get around (they fix one problem, which starts another..all in the ECM programming) The 6.0's had injector issues which I believe have been taken care of for the time being. The E4OD trans is the bomb. As long as the cooler isnt plugged and the connector on the side isnt burnt, they last forever driven hard. The diffs, well, its a 10.5 diff and I have seen maybe 10 failures on E350's which are overloaded by 3k lbs and driven HARD by guys who just dont give a damn (local cable co) The Duramxes I have seen are OK, they are VERY sensative to fuel quality and I understand have injection pump issues. The 4L80E trans is a workhorse when it works, but my boss has an 03 w/6.0 gas engine and 15k miles and his is chattering (not good) The cummins is a proven engine. A bitch to work on, but a nice powerful engine. Dodge changed to the 45RE trans which has proven to be a decent unit. A 3/4 ton gets the dana rear I believe, and not the dodge corporate junkpile. I think the Dodge is very comfy inside, but the ford rides better.

One question: With the price of diesel, why arent you considering a gas engine? 18mpg on a diesel or 15mpg on a gas engine, and diesel costs an avg 30 cents more a gal. DOnt get me wrong, I like diesels, but theyre not so economical anymore with the prices the way theyre going.

I'd buy a F250SD if a pickup is needed, or a Excursion is a utility vehicle was needed. (Excursion is a F 250 SD with an enclosed back basically) after working on all of them. A Dodge 2500 would be my second choice.
 
If one is looking for a pickup, Jim's estimates on fuel economy are probably pretty close. Except the difference is a little more pronounced when heavy towing.
And when it comes to "big" SUV's, there's no comparison. I can easilly squeeze 20mpg out of my 8000# excursion, and there's isn't a true full sized suv on the road that can even get close to that. Throw in heavy towing and the difference is even bigger! Having a vehicle come from the factory setup to tow over 11,000 isn't bad and great mileage to-boot! The 44 gallon fuel tank gives me all day driving distance and then some. Too bad the pickups didn't get the same fuel tank.
 
I have an 02 Dmax and love it. Diesel is a little higher than I care for right now but what do you do. I do agree with the others, if you don't plan to keep this truck for many, many years you are better off with a gas. From the higher initial cost plus the price of fuel you won't get your money back. The only advantage is the easy towing with heavy loads.

If you buy a gas, stay away from the 6.0 2500 chevy. It's a great truck but the mileage sucks.

Oil change every 7k miles while driving or 5k if towing often and it costs around $54 at the dealer. 17.6 mpg city and 19-20 on interstate running 75-80mph. I do have an edge box.

Towing mpg can be from 12-15 depending on what speed you run.

My honest opinion from being around both ford and chevy. The chevy rides better but the ford has more space, especially for passengers in the rear. I think both are great trucks. Either truck can have it's share of problems.

I believe the allison in the chevy is the better tranny and it's torque management is better than the other two. They all tow very similiar and the chevy (rated at less power) can do as well as or better while loaded because of the superior tranny calibration. This has been proven in unbiased towing comparison's (up hill dragstrip with all diesels competing)

I like the cummins but to get it you have to buy a dodge :(

All the new diesels are sensitive to clean fuel. To run quiet they have extremely high fuel pressure in the 23,000lb range so any dirt or foreign material that makes it through the filter basically sandblasts the guts of the injector. I change my fuel filter every other 12k miles and have had no injector problems, up to 63k right now. The early dmax's did have injector trouble because the bosch injectors were not made of a hard enough material, this problem was fixed and chevy extended my injector warranty to 200,000 miles.

They both have the same power, good 5 speed auto's with the edge going to the allison. Both have variable vane turbo's which I don't care for but may not have long term issues. I just don't like more things that can go wrong! Both are quiet and sensitive to clean fuel.

The ford has more leg room for passengers in the back and the chevy rides better. The ford has the cool spooling sound just off idle. They are very close in comparison, take your pick :D
 
I just picked up a 2001 2500 quad cab Dodge and seems to be a good truck so far. 163K miles, 24V Cummins/5 spd manual (NV4500) and it runs out pretty good on the highway. Average mpg on the hwy so far has been 19-20, with a few stretches of even better. It rides a little rough, but it also has the trailer/tow package, so it's a trade off. Only issue so far is a slight leak from the tranny's rear seal.....that and it's a noisy bish at idle. That's the bad thing about an earlier Cummins.....sounds like it's gonna fly apart at any given time...lol. Out on the highway, all you hear is a slight turbo whistle, so it's actually a quiet ride when cruising along. I can't complain though....I only paid 11,400 for the truck and it booked at 18K retail. Was too good of a deal to pass up.

Won't be long before it gets the wick turned up a bit.....one good thing about the Cummins is it's dang near indestructable....same for the NV4500 5 speed...lot stronger tranny then the NV5600 6 speed. My second choice would have been a Ford/7.3 Powerstroke......7.3 is another tough, reliable, and proven diesel.
 
Slo86GN said:
I just picked up a 2001 2500 quad cab Dodge and seems to be a good truck so far. 163K miles, 24V Cummins/5 spd manual (NV4500) and it runs out pretty good on the highway. Average mpg on the hwy so far has been 19-20, with a few stretches of even better. It rides a little rough, but it also has the trailer/tow package, so it's a trade off. Only issue so far is a slight leak from the tranny's rear seal.....that and it's a noisy bish at idle. That's the bad thing about an earlier Cummins.....sounds like it's gonna fly apart at any given time...lol. Out on the highway, all you hear is a slight turbo whistle, so it's actually a quiet ride when cruising along. I can't complain though....I only paid 11,400 for the truck and it booked at 18K retail. Was too good of a deal to pass up.

Won't be long before it gets the wick turned up a bit.....one good thing about the Cummins is it's dang near indestructable....same for the NV4500 5 speed...lot stronger tranny then the NV5600 6 speed. My second choice would have been a Ford/7.3 Powerstroke......7.3 is another tough, reliable, and proven diesel.
Click to expand...

Wow man you have the exact truck that I have wanted since 2001 lol. The Diesel trucks are the way of the feature IMO. If I where in a situation to buy one I would look for a used 12v 5 spd CTD. But thats just me and I would end up modding the crap out of it anyway :eek: :D
 
I like the Ford diesel ... plenty of power .... as far as discounts I think its a joke .. I still beat there price on my daughter's new GTP by THOUSANDS !!! :p
 
I have owned all 3 of the domestic trucks in the last few years and FWIW here's the verdict.
2003 Dodge 1500 Quadcab- Had it for 6 months and quickly got rid of it. Equipped with the 4.7 V-8, it wouldn't pull a sick hooker off of a toilet. I've driven a Hemi and while it has more power, It loves gas. The interior in the new Dodges looks OK at first but you will grow to hate it due to lackluster ergonomics-pass.

2003 GMC 1500 Ext cab- Far and away a better truck than the Dodge. Once again I got stuck with the smaller of the V-8's (the 4.8 liter), but has plenty of power and is extremely comfortable. I do love a GM truck for the ease of maintenance and the solid build quality.

2004 Ford F-150 Supercrew Lariat- By for the best of the bunch!! Mine has the 5.4 liter 300 HP V-8, and while you won't be wasting any GN's on the street it will move pretty good for a large truck. The most impressive thing about the new Fords is the interior. The truck rivals a Lexus inside for the creature comforts, quite ride and just the overall feeling of quality. The only complaint I have is, I wish they would make a 6.5 foot bed available on the supercrew. With the smaller bed you will be surprised how many things are just over 6' long.
 
I have owned most makes and models they all have their own advantages and disadvantages. If you dont want the same truck for a long time and dont want to lose a lot of money here is what I did. The dealers are dealing at this time. I found a 2005 f150 with v8 ext cab 4x4 auto for 165 bucks a month with no money down and 24 months to drive it and give it back. I only get 12000 miles a year but can get more miles for a little higher payment. Good way to use a truck and walk away from it in a couple of years. I put a hitch on and tow the race car. Only get 16 mpg pn the road but at 165 a month I have plenty left over for gas with that payment.
 
ttypewe4jim said:
Wow man you have the exact truck that I have wanted since 2001 lol. The Diesel trucks are the way of the feature IMO. If I where in a situation to buy one I would look for a used 12v 5 spd CTD. But thats just me and I would end up modding the crap out of it anyway :eek: :D
Click to expand...

I also got a killer deal on it, thus the reason for going ahead and buying it. I ended up paying 11,400 for the truck, but put 1500 down, so tax, tag, and out the door for just under 10K. NADA average retail was almost double that...booked for 18K, even with the miles. Heck, the trade value is good too...little over 14K. It already has a class 3 receiver hitch, plus a hideaway ball in the bed. Previous owner used it to tow a horse trailer and his camper, so most of the miles are highway-type driving. I'm already looking at mods for it though....can't leave it alone...lol. Once I get back to GA next week, going to take it to Garmon Diesel Performance outside Atlanta and let Jeff tweak it a little. I figure 350-400 hp should be good enough to haul whatever, but still get good fuel mileage. As is, it gets pretty impressive mileage.....I did find a trick to help it out from a few other CTD owners though.
 
same for the NV4500 5 speed...lot stronger tranny then the NV5600 6 speed.
Click to expand...


Hmm, not sure where you heard this. The NV5600 is far stronger than the NV4500. If a truck that is used for towing/hauling is what you want, then the Dodge Cummins/NV5600 is gonna be your best/strongest/most reliable combo. Not a better combo in a light duty pickup truck. Just my opinion from my own experiences with the 3 big manufacturers. If you can, test all 3 with a load behind it. Should be obvious then. Not sure if you can test em that way, but that would be best.
 
I'd go with the Ford. Anytime you see a comparison between the three in any of the mags, the Ford wins hands down.
 
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