Long Promised Series II Oil Pump Thread

CTX-SLPR

Active Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Ok, starting with the Timing Cover since it was the longest ago project. Sorry for the long thread and the out of focus pictures but this is archivial stuff and I don't want to take it apart again.

What I started out with was a pile of 3 Buick timing covers with the need to make 1 that would work on my motor in the frame and I wanted a gerotor pump over the stock wear prone spur gear unit. One stock V6 cover with a hole knocked in it, a stock L36 (FWD 3800 Series II), and a Stage II racing dry sump unit from a local guy who runs a 6-71 supercharged Stage II V6 in a rail. I don't have pictures of the original covers before the cuts but what I end up with was the bottom (oil pump) section of the L36 cover and the top half of the Stage II cover with around 1/4in overlap. The original plan was to weld them together so I made a jig out of 1/2in steel plate that I still have sitting around should I need it but since I had the overlap I decided to just fit the 2 together and use a combination of epoxy to build up low spots and grinding to make a joint that I could seal with aviation form a gasket.
Here's how it went together:
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Lower section on the block
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That fitting you see sticking out is the oil feed into the block since the oil passages don't line up because of the lower deck height on the FWD Series II block
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Here you can see the backside of the L36 oil pump and the gerotor passages, note the notch on the right side
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The side of the upper Stage II section notched to fit over the corresponding notch in the previous picture
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Whole backside of the upper section, yes it's upside down
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Right side overlap joint while the JB weld is curing
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Left Side
I used the painters tape to keep it from sticking to the block or the other piece of the cover. The gap left after I peeled and sanded it off was for the aviation form a gasket to fill. You can see the gap across the middle caused by the different heights of the covers. Here's how I fixed that:
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You can sorta see the spacer propped up between the sides of the timing cover, you can also barely see where I ground out the back of the timing cover to get the piece to sit flat. It's held in place by two 1/4-20 bolts and sealed against the cover with JB Weld.
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Shows how tightly I got it in there, I did this all with a dremel and a high speed cutter

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Here I've filled the oil passage that would take the oil back from the filter adapter to the block with epoxy. Its solid 1/4in thick and I sanded the flange flat with 400grit on glass using sharpie as a guide coat to find the low spots.
Unfortunately I don't have pictures of the intermediate steps of grinding that spacer bar to it fit the profile of the top of the lower section but lets just say I burned my dremel up (literally it caught fire) doing it.
 
To drive the oil pump I took a stock L36 gear and had the timing gear section machined off so it would fit on top of an Edelbrock (Cloyes really) double roller chain after the Rollmaster billet unit hit the backing plate for the oil pump. Note how much I had to machine off.
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Then I machined the back of the balancer down to make up for the difference and put the crank trigger ring in the right spot. I'm using a real Indy Lites balancer with an L36 timing ring bolted to the back
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I've replaced the hex head bolt with stainless button heads, like the oil feed from the pickup gallery to the pump, the index from keyway to ring orientation is unchanged between the 1986 designed EFI system and the 96 OBDII system.

The finished product in a few different views and states of assembly:
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Lower section in place with gasket
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Both with no pulley and crank position sensor in place
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Side view with balancer in place
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Fully assembled with oil feed adapters in place, semi-custom billet crank pulley (makes up for the change in balancer spacing due to the crank sensor). Sitting next to it is the tired 425 Nailhead that came out of the Riviera. No I am not going to sell it.
 
CTX-SLPR


I'm curious if you've run this engine yet? If you have you might want to pull your balancer and check it for cracks. It appears that you might have shortened the hub on the balancer and it now will butt up to the oil pump drive. I've already tried that method and the balancer hub cracked at the key. It probably lasted 3 months.

1st design pic.


The second design involved machining the hub of the balancer to fit inside of the gerotor oil pump gear. Again, after about 6 months the balancer cracked in the same area.

2nd design pic.


My latest design involved machining the oil pump gear out to fit over the stock diameter hub and doing so required two "flats" to be machined on it so it could drive the pump. This designed has been working flawlessly for at least a couple of years.

3rd design pic.


I was pulling the balancer so many times to check to see how this fabrication was holding up and it was a good thing I done so . I never had any major failures and it's due to me checking on it so many times and catching it before it got really bad. I'm not trying to fault your work but I've "been-there...done-that". :)
 
Good timing! I just got it started for the first time with my L67 EFI on Friday. I tried to get it running a few times before but got no oil pressure. That turned out to be because the pump lost it's prime and I had to back feed it with my remote oiler (SBC pump in a bucket run by a drill) and run the crank backwards by hand to get it to prime. She makes 75 PSI at idle but I had a lot of vasoline that I also put in the oil outlet to try to get it to prime to get out of the way. Unfortunately some oil from a valve cover leak caught fire and I had to shut her down after around 10 min of running.
I'll put some time on the engine and pull the damper in the future to check for cracks. I read your thread several times as I messed with this and to that end I actually minimized the amount I had to cut off of the damper by using a 1/2in shorter RJC pulley and I still got the alignment for the L67 crank rings and sensor right. I'm also hoping the elastomeric ring in the damper will help keep the stress down as well.

Is your crank internal balanced or external?
 
Cool setup.

How are you priming the engine before startup.

I know the LS guys use a Pressure tank with oil since their oil pump is similar
 
Cool setup.

How are you priming the engine before startup.

I know the LS guys use a Pressure tank with oil since their oil pump is similar
I'll have to dig up the pictures when I get home but I have an SBC oil pump mounted on the lid of a 2gal bucket with a pickup tube I cut in half and used heater hose to extend to the bottom of the bucket. I run it with the oilpump driveshaft chucked into my drill. It's got a -6 AN fitting on the outlet of the pump and a 3/8in barbed fitting on the drain return with an oil drainplug that I drilled a hole in and welded a stub of 3/8in tubing onto. I use clear vinyl tubing so I can see how much air or debris is coming through the return line. I honestly should add an inline filter on the output of the pump but so far I've been running known clean oil in circulation or if it went through the engine after I tried to fire it, it goes into the catch basin for disposal. I've probably run it for 20-30 min of total operation with 5+ gal of oil run through it and it works great if you plumb it into the right spot!
 
Cool:cool:
I figured you had something like that. Post up ths pics that will be cool to check out
 
Cool setup.

How are you priming the engine before startup.

I know the LS guys use a Pressure tank with oil since their oil pump is similar

I have primed mine before but usually I just crank mine right up without doing it at all. That's why I assemble the engine with pre-lube...because its thick and sticks there for your first engine start-up. I guess I'm lucky...:D
 
I have primed mine before but usually I just crank mine right up without doing it at all. That's why I assemble the engine with pre-lube...because its thick and sticks there for your first engine start-up. I guess I'm lucky...:D
My engine was built over the course of 3yrs, I don't think assembly lube is THAT good so I preoiled it. I should have packed the pump with vasolene when I built it though.
 
Ugh...yes, after three years of sitting I'd prime it too. I thought you built it and stuck it right in...my bad.:smile:
 
Ugh...yes, after three years of sitting I'd prime it too. I thought you built it and stuck it right in...my bad.:smile:
No problem, it's been together and apart at least 6 times over 6yrs of work on it as I changed parts and ideas. I used assembly lube the first 2 times it got assembled but the last time I knew I was going to pre oil it so I just used a mix of 50/50 30 weight and STP and put it together.

The Pre-Oiler:
Many of ya'll will recognize this from a CC article on how to prime a distributorless engine. Well while I still have the distributoresque cam sensor stub, it does not drive the oil pump anymore. So I built this using the cheapest SBC oilpump, pickup, and driveshaft from the parts store, a 2gal bucket, 5/8in heater hose, and a handful of -6 AN fittings. Basically the bucket holds the oil and the SBC pump hangs from the lid. I screwed a 1/4in NPT to -6 AN adapter into the outlet of the pump and cut the pickup in half and used heater hose to bridge the gap so it put the pickup screen in the bottom of the bucket.
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Since I'm not that fancy I just drilled a hole for the return line and used 3/8in vinyl tube as a return line. In the pictures, it's blocked by the fender washer to keep crap out of the oil while it's sitting.
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Hooked it up with a spare -6 line and drilled a hole threw a 1/2-20 bolt and welded a stub of 3/8in steel line on it as the drain hook up.
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Since I'm just getting it ready to be rolled around and such I wasn't too concerned with the pressure so I just ran the drill on the lowspeed gear box for 2-3 min then pulled the valve covers and checked that yes I did have oil coming out of the rollers on the tops of the valves. Now it's sitting there draining to try to lighten the engine up a bit before I swing it in.
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Thats gearheading in my book right there!! Outstanding! :cool:

I like the use of Aviation permatex form a gasket on the two halves of teh front cover

Not sure why folks dont use that on the girdles as it swould fit the bill of sealing better than whats commonly used IMO.

Good luck with it.
 
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