Little disappointed with 1/4 mile times

[jghall6]

Went to the track last night for the first time and was a little disappointed. I was expecting to be in the 12's with my set up (see signature). Ran 3 times. First 2 runs were 13.2 and 13.5 at 100 mph (2.1 and 2.2 60 foot times). Power breaked but did not build boost on first 2 runs. I was trying to get used to the staging lights. Before the 3rd run I let the car cool down some. Staged and left with 2 pounds of boost. Ran a 13.3 at 104 mph. 60 foot time was 2.1. Thought I would have been in the 12's with a 104 mph speed. Outside temp was 89 degrees and was a little humid. I'm running 22 psi boost and see 0 detination on the scan master. I did a little burn out and it did not feel like I was loosing traction off the line with the drag radials. Suggestions?

 

[Amelio]

you need to get a 1.9 60' need to leave with more boost......where is your timing at? Were you at 22psi for most of the run? That should be enough boost with your combo to break in the 12's but I dont see it happening with that 60'....if your going to continue to come out that soft you need more total boost to make up for it on the back end...but honestly just get your 60's under 2.0

 

[griffgoody]

Went to the track last night for the first time and was a little disappointed. I was expecting to be in the 12's with my set up (see signature). Ran 3 times. First 2 runs were 13.2 and 13.5 at 100 mph (2.1 and 2.2 60 foot times). Power breaked but did not build boost on first 2 runs. I was trying to get used to the staging lights. Before the 3rd run I let the car cool down some. Staged and left with 2 pounds of boost. Ran a 13.3 at 104 mph. 60 foot time was 2.1. Thought I would have been in the 12's with a 104 mph speed. Outside temp was 89 degrees and was a little humid. I'm running 22 psi boost and see 0 detination on the scan master. I did a little burn out and it did not feel like I was loosing traction off the line with the drag radials. Suggestions?

What size drag radials are you running. I was thinking about getting some 275/60/15. Because my old Comp t/a drag radials wasn't cutting it (235/60/15). I ran a couple of wks ago. My car is pretty much set up like yours. Crappy 60 ft times (2.1 - 2.203). Best time was the last run of the night with 202 temps at the lights. 13.276 at 105.21 mph. If i came out the hole with 5# of boost. I would roast the tires off the line. And as soon as it hit second, up in SMOKE. But the last run i came out around 2# of boost and it left great. But roasted the tires in second. But i stood in it and rode it out to a 13.2. Sounds like we both need better 60ft times to get into the 12's. My goals are low 12's high 11's with my setup.

 

[griffgoody]

Almost 4got. I was running between 22-24# of boost.

 

[Kurt04]

Curious, what were your 1/8th mile ET and MPH's?

 

[Jonasterg]

jghall6 - Try leaving with more boost. Don't worry about cutting a good light at the tree, just concentrate on leaving at a specific boost level. The track doesn't start timing you until your car starts moving (even if the light is already green).

My first time out, I cut 60' times of 1.9-2.0. While my MPH didn't vary much from run to run (111-113), decreasing my 60' made a huge difference in ET (12.6 to 12.4). I'm still launching way too soft, but it's a starting point for a track virgin. I launched at 0, then 2, then 5 psi off the foot brake. Since there was no tire spin at 5psi, I need to try and leave harder next time. I've got MT ET Streets (255-60-15) and they hooked fine at my track. I think I ran them at 20-22 psi, though more tire pressure might work better. Did enough of a burnout to clean them off a bit, but didn't roast them completely.

Keep playing with your launch. Leave with more boost unless you break the tires loose or start pushing through your brakes. I've heard people get sub-1.8 60' times with basically stock suspensions.

Good luck, have fun.

 

[grey racer]

There's a few things you can do to help....run tire pressure in the dr's at maybe 17psi....do a substantial burn out....don't worry about the lights, build as much boost as possible without
spinning the tires and note what that boost is so that you'll know for the next time. I'm assuming you have a boost gauge... 60 ft is critical in your case. Don't just floor it and wait for the boost to come up, try to role into the throttle so that your giving it gas and when it reaches the max point before you loose traction ( whatever boost that is ) you max the throttle and pop the brake pretty much simultaneously and away you go.
Make sure the floor mat isn't in the way and hampering wot....87 degrees is pretty warm for a great time....you'll do much better at 75 and even better at 60....
And of course.....you can turn up the boost !!!!!! go beat some Mustangs....

 

[Hotrodbuick]

Your 60ft times are real important in your over all times. Depending on your tire size, you should be able to leave on foot brake with 5 or 6 lbs of boost. Like other member said. Just take your time off the line, don't have to leave as soon as the light is green since your not worried about reaction times. Practice practice practice

 

[Timbuick]

I feel your pain!
Managed 108mph but only 13.8 with lousy 60 of 2.7
Its clearly in the launch. For relative newbies like me (you?) its difficult not to feel hassled by the track crew who want to get cars moving through as quick as possible.
Friend of mine has a stock motor GN with TA49 and alky + 27lbs boost and runs 11.7. Takes all the time in the world at the lights and runs when he' s ready.

 

[blackgn1]

Leave on as high a boost numeber as you can. I have successfully left on 11psi. Anything above that blows the tires off.

 

[griffgoody]

Leave on as high a boost numeber as you can. I have successfully left on 11psi. Anything above that blows the tires off.

What kinda tires are you running full slicks or drag radials. If drag radials, what kind.

 

[Pronto]

I used to run 235 BFG drag radials. Best 60 was 1.7. Try 18-20 lbs in the tires. Do a good burnout but not a John Force. Leave on the highest boost you can get. If you blow the tires way, next time leave a few lbs less but the higher the boost the harder the tires bite. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to cut a 1.8 or 1.9. That will make a big difference in your ET.

 

[griffgoody]

I used to run 235 BFG drag radials. Best 60 was 1.7. Try 18-20 lbs in the tires. Do a good burnout but not a John Force. Leave on the highest boost you can get. If you blow the tires way, next time leave a few lbs less but the higher the boost the harder the tires bite. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to cut a 1.8 or 1.9. That will make a big difference in your ET.

I'll try and lower air to 17 lbs nex time. Had them at 19. Plus its tha first time i've ran this car in about 7 or 8 yrs. Used to my vette and not boost. I'll get there. Its a challenge with this car. Tks

 

[we4Mateo]

I run 24psi in my MT ET Streets (255/60/15) and they need a little more than just a cleanoff burnout, but when they start to squeel, I roll out staying in it for just a bit yet. I never lower the pressures in my DRs unless track prep is real bad. I manage 1.7x 60s all the time with 1.6xs if I really wait for the boost to come up past where my brakes hold. This is on vacuum boosted foot brakes. I get better 60s when leaving while spooling up rather than leaving with more boost but not in the process of spooling up. Basically, as the turbo is accelerating, try to leave as late as you can but still while the turbo is accelerating. I'd be looking for a LOT more mph out my car though at those boost levels with alky. What are your O2's at the top of third or do you have a wideband? What kind of timing? Has it been verified? HTH.

Also, as mentioned, don't worry about the light. Learn how to drive the car first. It's a lot of fun. Everyone starts somewhere. There is plenty of time for racing when you know your car like the back of your hand. So hard to do though with a helmet on and another person next to you in the other lane just wondering if he's going to take this TR or not...

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

what i do (experienced racers suggested it to me) I try to hold the car until it starts pushing and at that moment i floor it and let go of the brakes. that netted me my best 60' of 1.57 on a car with ALL STOCK vacuum BRAKES.
almost forgot the old farts also suggested to try and shallow stage the car. as they explained to me that that sorta gives you a rolling start before your tire clears the beams.

 

[Red C5]

Don't sweat it, you're right there. You leave a littel bit harder and you'll make a 12 sec pass.

 

[blackgn1]

I have Mickey Thompson Drag Radials (E.T. Streets) Running 18psi tire pressure. I do a "good" burn out. I may have better track prep than some of the other guys. I have left on 13psi and thrown the governer spring out.

 

[87-WE2]

I used to run 235 BFG drag radials. Best 60 was 1.7. Try 18-20 lbs in the tires. Do a good burnout but not a John Force. Leave on the highest boost you can get. If you blow the tires way, next time leave a few lbs less but the higher the boost the harder the tires bite. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to cut a 1.8 or 1.9. That will make a big difference in your ET.

I agree with Pronto here - you have the capability to do a 1.8 for sure if you drop the rear tire PSI to 18-20. See my sig. I'm all stock suspension. The run in my sig was with 235 BFG DR's. One of the more seasoned guys on the board told me not to worry so much about leaving with a high boost level, but to try to leave while the boost was climbing. I only left at maybe 2-3 PSI on this particular run, but it was on the climb and i actually experienced a feeling of vertigo for about the first half. I now know when i get a good 60 because i get that same feeling.

Also, at the time i made this 1.8 60', i had no adjustable chip. It was the old ATR pit bull with about a day and a half of timing advance. I'm not saying to advance your timing a ton, but maybe a fraction of a degree or so at a time at the track just to find the threshold for your car (and ONLY in 1st and 2nd). You'll be amazed at the difference that only a smidge of timing will make. If you try this, be sure to keep an eye on your KR or knock gauge or audible or whatever you use.

Edit - my 60' time on this run was 1.827! Here's a link to the thread where I posted this time slip (with a pic!)
http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/first-time-slips.351647/

 

[Nick Micale]

This is an interesting thread!

When my original T was new, not my race car, and only a couple mods like chip, re-cap "slicks", dual exhaust w/o cutout and an air intake I was able to get a 13.1 with it falling on its face when the fuel pump could not keep up.

One important item I did have, and still do in that car, is a 10" non-lock up converter, and a stock turbo. Around town or on the highway, it is hard to tell any difference over a stock converter.

I see you have a TE-49 turbo with a Precision housing which requires at least a 3000 stall converter, and I doubt the Red Strip is loose enough?

Your combo will give you a good top end run, but sucks for the first 1/2 track. The Precision is good at top end, but a Garrett housing will blow it away off the line.

Simple test, check and do a stall test to record the RPM when you reach 0 psi boost.

You have 2 symptoms of a too tight converter, not building enough launch boost, and blowing the tires away before you are even off the pad.

Again I must make a statement I have said many times - "most people pick or have too tight a converter for their combo".

Some of my customer's think I am crazy when I tell them about the stall of their converter. So I do not tell them until AFTER they have driven their car!

Of course over 25 years ago, I did not know about converters, but one of the best tranny builders of the day wanted to "experiment" with a turbo car until he got it right, and he did, and I am still learning!

 

[blackgn1]

One thing I failed to mention was my supension setup. I have the HR sway bar. UMI control arms and Bilstien Shocks. Thats why I can leave so hard. I didn't provide that information. Nick's information is dead on also. I have a PTC 9.5" non locking converter also.