Lets talk oil

[David A]

Greetings Everyone,

I'm new to the Buick Grand National scene but not to the turbos or collecting cars for that matter. I recently picked up an 87 Grand National that has a little work done to it. The seller ( a local classic car retailer) claims it's putting down 400 hp.

Searching the forums there seems to be some debate on the type (synthetic vs. non) of oil you should run. The only thing that seems consistent is people adding ZDDP to their oil of choice. I'm curious as to what weight people are running and if one brand as shown better results over another with these engines. Are these engines prone to sheering oil?

I'm toying with the idea of running Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 full synthetic. I realize some people say synthetic is a waste with short oil change intervals but I'm after max protection for the engine. I figure I'll put maybe 3000 miles a year on the doing weekend cruises and the occasional trip to the 1/4 track.

 

[87chrisss]

I ONLY use Rotella and i add some lucas oil stabilizer on top of it.. weight is your choice based on mileage and oil pressure w,e you prefer. The Rotella has higher level of zinc than synthetic shelf oil. You will see this is a touchy subject here you'll here all type of non sense. Just do alot of research yourself and you wont need to here people's useless opinions. Again what i choose to run is my preference Rotella all the way no doubt or questions about it.

 

[David A]

Thank you for the feedback. Are you doing 3,000 mile change intervals?

 

[TurboTGuy]

Royal Purple 10/30 here.

Valve train is all roller, so no Zinc addatives, either.

People can/will tell you a thousand different things. RP is my preference and that's what I go with.

I ain't blowed it up yet!

 

[87chrisss]

Not trying to start a debate here but whether or not some guys think 'Zinc' is needed or not needed even if roller regardless Zinc will protect any metal to metal surface it creates a "film between the two metals far better than synthetic oil. Royal Purple contains ZDDP in the oil already. I cant afford $10 a quart so i use something that is in my budget hard to beat Rotella's price its a bang for the buck.. Royal purple is great and one of the reason is because it contains high level of Zinc already. It's not the purple that's special the zinc is whats protecting your motor.
All Royal Purple engine oils contain the zinc/phosphorus compound zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP). Royal Purple HPS and XPR lines of engine oils are formulated with a higher concentration of these elements and are suitable for both roller and flat tappet valve trains.


To the op.. I dont go by mileage for oil changes sometimes i beat on the car harder so i look at the oil smell it feel it etc.. i dont care for the mileage on the oil.

Most guy's on here will refer to the cam roller or flat.. but how about your bearing cam bearings main/rod bearings those arent roller. ZDDP is a must IMO in any car that you care about..

 

[nickb]

i use valvoline VR1 racing oil. 20-50. I change it every time after i go to the track. and very often besides that. just makes me feel better, not that i know if it actually is better. if its dirty it gets changed

 

[David A]

Thanks for all the great feedback. Has any one sent virgin oil in for an analysis and then performed a used oil analysis to see the effects the engine and turbo is having on the oil? It's seems a lot of you like the heavier weight oils. Is that because they are shearing down a grade when in use?

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

On a non roller camshft engine you need zddp for sure as a additive for insurance to keep that cam from wiping out the lobes , My Turbo T is a roller cam so I use VR1 Valvoline 20 50 racing oil , in a non roller engine I use Rotella 30 , a quart of lucas and Zddp additive and this is my personal perference.

 

[87chrisss]

Read.

http://www.zddplus.com/

 

[TRICKSIXPA]

VR1 20/50 Oil or regular 20/50Valvoline with ZDDP added to it.

 

[chopped39]

Did rotella go back with adding zinc? The government mandated that it be removed all oils a couple years back. Someone had it posted on here. I know vr1 valvaline has zinc but its not street legal. 5w 40 synthetic is what we use on our entire fleet . From the toyota prius to the Grove cranes it gets changed every 6 months unless it has the 6.0 diesel then once a month. I dont know how they get away with selling zddp if zinc is not allowed to be sold. Gm still sells the assembly lube that is a zinc additive.

 

[87chrisss]

Dear: Shell Lubricants US Technical Information Center
Have a few questions if you could help that would be great. Rotella CI-4 with high level zinc, and phosphorus, when reformulated under CJ-4 the zinc, and phosphorus was reduced to 1100 to 1200 ppm. The SM and new SN oils are lowered down again to 800 ppm. Is this updated and presently correct?

Second question: Doe's Shell presently support using 15w-40 Rotella T in non-diesel spark ignition automotive flat tapped camshaft engines? The reason I'm asking this article below has me scratching my head.

Many of the diesel oils with higher Phosphorus also contain “higher levels of detergent and dispersant” which compete for surface area with the ZDDP which can reduce its effectiveness. During the development of the current API SM engine tests, high phosphorus diesel engine oil was run in a flat tappet, push rod engine test and it failed the wear requirements with worse results than most low Phosphorus passenger car oils.
Quoted in part from: Modern Oils in Older Engines, by: Neil McTavish AATM at Castrol.

I appreciate your reply,





You are correct with regard to the slight reduction in zinc and phosphorous levels when Shell Rotella oils were reformulated from API CI-4 Plus to CJ-4 in mid- to late- 2006.

However, API SM and API SN are NOT the culprits requiring lower zinc and phosphorous levels in gasoline oils - it is the co-specifications of ILSAC GF-4 and GF-5 that most passenger car engine oils must meet. While Shell Rotella T Triple Protection Oil SAE 15W-40 does meet API SM, it is NOT formulated to meet ILSAC GF-4 or GF-5, so can contain higher levels of zinc and phosphorous than most gasoline-only engine oils. (The word is “Can” does not clearly state that it actually does contain higher levels of zinc and phosphorous)

Shell Rotella T Triple Protection Oil SAE 15W-40 does contain “higher levels of detergents” than passenger car engine oils. (But how much is not stated) I'm not familiar with the Castrol study you cite, but field experience has shown that our Shell Rotella multigrade oils are effective in protecting flat tappet camshafts. At one point, Competition Cams was recommending Shell Rotella oils for the application, although admittedly, that was the CI-4 Plus formulation - these oils did, however, still have high levels of detergents.

We believe Shell Rotella T Triple Protection Oil SAE 15W-40 “should” work well for most of these situations. I'd suggest, however, that in an application where very high valve spring tensions are being employed, use of an additional zinc additive could provide a further level of insurance during the break-in period.

Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!

Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants US Technical Information Center
http://www.shell.us/lubricants

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

I use Brad Penn oil....they claim to use an increased concentration of zinc - http://www.penngrade1.com/Default.aspx

 

[TurboTGuy]

Not trying to start a debate here but whether or not some guys think 'Zinc' is needed or not needed even if roller regardless Zinc will protect any metal to metal surface it creates a "film between the two metals far better than synthetic oil. Royal Purple contains ZDDP in the oil already. I cant afford $10 a quart so i use something that is in my budget hard to beat Rotella's price its a bang for the buck.. Royal purple is great and one of the reason is because it contains high level of Zinc already. It's not the purple that's special the zinc is whats protecting your motor.
All Royal Purple engine oils contain the zinc/phosphorus compound zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP). Royal Purple HPS and XPR lines of engine oils are formulated with a higher concentration of these elements and are suitable for both roller and flat tappet valve trains.


To the op.. I dont go by mileage for oil changes sometimes i beat on the car harder so i look at the oil smell it feel it etc.. i dont care for the mileage on the oil.

Most guy's on here will refer to the cam roller or flat.. but how about your bearing cam bearings main/rod bearings those arent roller. ZDDP is a must IMO in any car that you care about..

I'm not here to debate it either. I never said "No Zinc" I said "No Zinc addatives" e.i. I don't add anything extraneous to the RP I use.

As to "To the op.. I dont go by mileage for oil changes sometimes i beat on the car harder so i look at the oil smell it feel it etc.." - x2

About the purple not being the special part, now them thar's a-fightin' words...........

 

[87chrisss]

Guy, you always have the most interesting grammar .. now them thar's are fightin' words.. lol.. i love purple stuff too.. i just cant afford it!!

 

[TurboTGuy]

 

[ikle]

I use 6 quarts of Mobil 1 10/30 with 6 onces of ZDDP at every oil change. I choose 10/30 because it is what GM recommends and I only drive my car in the warmer months. I used to use 5/30 but I have better oil pressure with the 10/30.

 

[Squid4life]

Royal Purple 10/40 here.

Guy, do you run the HPS High Performance Street, or plain old RP? Or even their "Race" oil?

 

[czimpel]

I ONLY use Rotella and i add some lucas oil stabilizer on top of it.. weight is your choice based on mileage and oil pressure w,e you prefer. The Rotella has the highest level of Zinc than any other off the shelf oil. You will see this is a touchy subject here you'll here all type of non sense. Just do alot of research yourself and you wont need to here people's useless opinions. Again what i choose to run is my preference Rotella all the way no doubt or questions about it.

No zinc in Rotella anymore!

 

[mikestertwo]

Vavoline VR1 10W-30 here.