I need a new alt, what should i get

[88 CuttyClassic]

My Hurst Olds is in need of a new alt.anyway and I am collecting parts for the system and was wondering what amperage i should get for the alt. Here is what i will be running so far

One Punch 600aIV 4ch suppling power to (4) JL 8"w0
One Punch 200 4ch suppling power to (2) Pioneer 4 way 6x9's
two 3.5 infinity kappa's and a sony CD deck and maybe a 10 disc changer.

the punch 600 needs a 50 amp fuse and the punch 200 needs a 30 amp fuse. So up by the battery i should run an 80 amp fuse/circuit breaker for the wire? What guage wire do you recommend for this install? So should i run the wire back to a Dist block with one 50 amp fuse and one 30 amp fuse? Do you recommend a capacitor?

I want to prevent a fire from happening, not blow fuses, not have my lights dim and get the best performance out of my budget install. so should i get a 120 amp alt? maybe a optima yellow top?

Oh by the way i'm a lil worried if i can fit all (4) 8"s up on the shelf in the trunk, anybody know if this will work? The 6x9's hang down kinda far but i think i have about 11 or 12 inches to work with cause i know the box will need to stretch from wheel well to wheel well.

 

[Two Lane]

Our AudioWizard has an answer for you, just as soon as he sees your post!

 

[GNandTTA]

Stick with the stock alternator unless you are competing and looking for “brownie” points for a nice shiny alternator. The GM C units are really excellent alternators. I have much more potential wattage (920 watts) and a second battery in my TTA with the stock alternator and it does just fine. I had much more problems when using an aftermarket alternator. Most people don’t understand that there is a tradeoff when using a high output alternator. You will get more amperage at higher rpms BUT also lower amperage at lower rpms. Bottom line, I’d stay with the factory alt.

Music is dynamic meaning that it is constantly changing. Thus the amount of current your system is drawing is constantly changing. The rated fuse size that an amplifier takes is to protect the internal circuitry from damage. For instance, you punch 600 has a 50 amp fuse, but in reality it probably never draws even close to 40 amps.

Best way to prevent lights from dimming is to make sure that your connections are mint – especially the grounds. Often overlooked but vital is a good connection between the battery and the body of the car. The frame rail makes an excellent grounding conductor. Use 4g wire and big bolts. Make a connection from the battery to the frame rail and then in the trunk make a connection from the frame rail to your amplifier grounds. Crank the sh*t out of the bolts and put some paint or grease on them to keep the connection good.

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
."the punch 600 needs a 50 amp fuse and the punch 200 needs a 30 amp fuse. So up by the battery i should run an 80 amp fuse/circuit breaker for the wire? What guage wire do you recommend for this install? So should i run the wire back to a Dist block with one 50 amp fuse and one 30 amp fuse? Do you recommend a capacitor?"

You need a fuse at least with-in 18" of the front battery's 4 AWG (minimum) cable to the rear of trunk that will be feeding a power distribution block. The front fuse is just to protect the power cable in case of a "direct short" so that you will not have a "melt-down" so to speak so a 80amp to 100 amp fuse is just fine. From the distribution block , fuse the amplifiers accordingly to the recomended ratings and proper gauge power cable. The grounds of the amplifiers must be the same gauge wire as power cable (nothing smaller). As a ground loop preventative, use a distribution block for the ground to frame or ground directly to the frame straight from the amplifiers. And yes I would recomend a capacitor for your set up! The capacitors rapidly discharge and charge giving your amplifier some "extra" juice during the heavy bass notes.

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
"I want to prevent a fire from happening, not blow fuses, not have my lights dim and get the best performance out of my budget install. so should i get a 120 amp alt? maybe a optima yellow top?"

As long as everything is properly fused, you will not have to worry about a fire (fusing protects the wiring, equipment, and vehicle) What you need is capacity and that can be achieved with stiffening caps, a healthy battery and an alternator to keep battery charged. A 800 cca and up battery with a factory 120 amp alt. will be just fine coupled with a stiffening cap. I went overboard on mine with a 160 amp alt. (overkill) dual batteries (again overkill....) and a 1 farad cap per amplifier (did I mention overkill? again ?....). I have no headlight dimming with my set up and you should achieve the same results with the simple set up that I mentioned earlier.

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
"Oh by the way i'm a lil worried if i can fit all (4) 8"s up on the shelf in the trunk, anybody know if this will work? The 6x9's hang down kinda far but i think i have about 11 or 12 inches to work with cause i know the box will need to stretch from wheel well to wheel well."

I have built 4 10" subs straight across the back fender to fender that fit so 4 8" subs will be a piece of cake!

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by Two Lane
Our AudioWizard has an answer for you, just as soon as he sees your post!

Thank you Two Lane!

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

Re: Re: I need a new alt, what should i get

Originally posted by Audiowizard

I have built 4 10" subs straight across the back fender to fender that fit so 4 8" subs will be a piece of cake!

i know they will fit fender to fender but wil they fit across up on the shelf?

 

[Audiowizard]

Re: Re: Re: I need a new alt, what should i get

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
i know they will fit fender to fender but wil they fit across up on the shelf?

Are you talking about the rear deck where the 3rd brake light mounts? It will work if they are firing upwards but not sure how close distance wise from the rear deck to the woofer. You are not going to know how it will sound until you build and install the cabinet with woofers.

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

under the rear deck inside the trunk, on that little shelf. I plan on having them fire towards the rear of the car. Does anyone have a mesurement on that area, Length/depth/ height. I don't wanna extend into the larger trunk area as i need a place for my t-tops when i take them off, i figured i could fit about 4 8's on that shelf, but i'm not sure. Also i want to fire them towards the back for display purposes, in the center of each of the 4 8's will be one letter of the word O-L-D-S. Its hard to discribe my idea but i want it to look like a carpeted trunk kit when its all done.

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
Does anyone have a mesurement on that area, Length/depth/ height.

As my post stated earlier (4 8" subs will fit on the shelf above rear axle). It will fit the width, height, and depth whether they fire forwards, backwards or upwards!.

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
The 6x9's hang down kinda far but i think i have about 11 or 12 inches to work with

All you need is a box height minimum of 9 & 3/4" to fit within the 11" or 12" that you need to work with, width and depth are not a problem, the woofer cabinet will fit.

Fender to fender max is apx 41" to 42" (going by memory).

(4) 8" subs widths = .........32".
3 dividers of 3/4" MDF =......2.25".
2 outer walls of 3/4" MDF = 1.50".

Total width minimum =.......35.75".

You will have plenty of room fender to fender. If you still dont believe me, then go out to your trunk and measure it.

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

thanks audiowizard!

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
thanks audiowizard!

Your're Welcome!

 

[HzEmall Regal]

Originally posted by 88 CuttyClassic
My Hurst Olds is in need of a new alt.anyway and I am collecting parts for the system and was wondering what amperage i should get for the alt. Here is what i will be running so far

One Punch 600aIV 4ch suppling power to (4) JL 8"w0
One Punch 200 4ch suppling power to (2) Pioneer 4 way 6x9's
two 3.5 infinity kappa's and a sony CD deck and maybe a 10 disc changer.

the punch 600 needs a 50 amp fuse and the punch 200 needs a 30 amp fuse. So up by the battery i should run an 80 amp fuse/circuit breaker for the wire? What guage wire do you recommend for this install? So should i run the wire back to a Dist block with one 50 amp fuse and one 30 amp fuse? Do you recommend a capacitor?

I want to prevent a fire from happening, not blow fuses, not have my lights dim and get the best performance out of my budget install. so should i get a 120 amp alt? maybe a optima yellow top?

Oh by the way i'm a lil worried if i can fit all (4) 8"s up on the shelf in the trunk, anybody know if this will work? The 6x9's hang down kinda far but i think i have about 11 or 12 inches to work with cause i know the box will need to stretch from wheel well to wheel well.

If you go with the biggest possible alternator you can afford, then buy a good battery for the car that is all you need. Don't waste your time on a Cap, it is only going to supply voltage from the alternator and is a pretty big bandaid for any car stereo. Everything starts and ends with the Alternator.

Make sure you upgrade every ground in the car to the biggest you can, and I would recommend min 4awg for wire. My entire Regal is wired with 1awg even to the starter. Make sure your car is properly grounded also.

I have a Wrangler 180amp dual output alternator. One post runs the car battery, the other post runs the stereo battery.

They are very inexpensive if you buy direct.

 

[Audiowizard]

Re: Re: I need a new alt, what should i get

Originally posted by Xtant Regal
"If you go with the biggest possible alternator you can afford, then buy a good battery for the car that is all you need."

Unless it is a full blown SPL system, you don't need a high output alternator (still nice to have but not neccessary). The stock 120 amp and a good cca battery will do the job. You can put the money elsewhere in your system.

Originally posted by Xtant Regal
"Don't waste your time on a Cap, it is only going to supply voltage from the alternator and is a pretty big bandaid for any car stereo."

You are not wasting your time with a cap. they do serve a purpose. Audio capacitors store the necessary power your amplifier will need to punch those big bass notes while limiting clipping. They store power during intervals when it is not required, which is most of the time, and release it when short term internal demand exceeds what is available from the car's power system. A stiffening capacitor for your amp is the simplest way to be sure your system always gets every bit of transient current it needs. From the smallest .5 farad, to 1.5 farad, there's a capacitor suitable for your installation. Mount them as close to the amplifier as possible, and use at least .5 farad (500,000 microfarads) per 500 watts RMS of power output. just my .03 cents.

 

[HzEmall Regal]

Re: Re: Re: I need a new alt, what should i get

Originally posted by Audiowizard
Unless it is a full blown SPL system, you don't need a high output alternator (still nice to have but not neccessary). The stock 120 amp and a good cca battery will do the job. You can put the money elsewhere in your system.




You are not wasting your time with a cap. they do serve a purpose. Audio capacitors store the necessary power your amplifier will need to punch those big bass notes while limiting clipping. They store power during intervals when it is not required, which is most of the time, and release it when short term internal demand exceeds what is available from the car's power system. A stiffening capacitor for your amp is the simplest way to be sure your system always gets every bit of transient current it needs. From the smallest .5 farad, to 1.5 farad, there's a capacitor suitable for your installation. Mount them as close to the amplifier as possible, and use at least .5 farad (500,000 microfarads) per 500 watts RMS of power output. just my .03 cents.

Well if that is what you believe then that's your .03 cents.

I could sit here all night and disprove anything and everything you can say that is good about a cap and show you why a Alternator is the only thing that is going to give you the power you need.

If a cap was to help, and I mean IF, it would not be with transient current as that would be provided by the alternator as transient is something that is constant, it would help with Peak current for short bursts of dynamic range material, but again if you had a high output alternator with a good battery, the battery will provide that peak current over and over cause the alternator can deliver that current and charge the battery at the same time.

And since you like to quote things about Biggs and Eldridge so much, why is it that they both have 200 Amp alternators and multiple batteries ? Because they know that if you want to build a system to work and provide the current for the amps for those peak and transient times you need current and that is produced by Alternators...............

Pick any other competitor or SPL car and they don't have caps, just big alternators and batteries........Alma has none, Shaker has none, Michael Hughes has none, Frank Rouge has none, Rob Rice has none............

That's my .02 cents.............

 

[Audiowizard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I need a new alt, what should i get

Originally posted by Xtant Regal
And since you like to quote things about Biggs and Eldridge so much

Well!!.......... they are where you are not!! so they must be doing something right.


If you can't handle someone elses inputs on car audio, then you do not need to post here. You are NOT the only stereo guru here, This is not the first time you have bashed my replies so if you cannot take it..............then don't dish it out!!!

If you want to continue a pissing contest, feel free to e-mail me and we can discuss it like gentleman. Lets not waste this boards bandwidth on WHO is the car audio expert! thanks!

 

[HzEmall Regal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I need a new alt, what should i get

Originally posted by Audiowizard
Well!!.......... they are where you are not!! so they must be doing something right.


If you can't handle someone elses inputs on car audio, then you do not need to post here. You are NOT the only stereo guru here, This is not the first time you have bashed my replies so if you cannot take it..............then don't dish it out!!!

If you want to continue a pissing contest, feel free to e-mail me and we can discuss it like gentleman. Lets not waste this boards bandwidth on WHO is the car audio expert! thanks!

I can handle anyones input and am not looking to get into a pissing contest, I am simply pointing out issues regarding caps and their common misconceptions on how they ACTUALLY work.

I do take issue when people spend their hard earned money on car audio products that they do not need.

If anyone cares to simply look at the electrical properties of how a cap works they would see it is just a huge marketing ploy and they need to go back into the world of computers where they came from.

You can't dispute the little thing called "The law of physics" and how and where current is created and flows.

I never said I am a stereo guru nor did I imply there were any on this board, my history and reputation stand on it's own merits.

And as for Biggs and Eldridge, I have been to the same place they are and what does it tell you when we share the same mind set regarding the cap issue.

Feel free to email me any time

 

[Audiowizard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I need a new alt, what should i get

Originally posted by Xtant Regal
I can handle anyones input and am not looking to get into a pissing contest, I am simply pointing out issues regarding caps and their common misconceptions on how they ACTUALLY work.

I do take issue when people spend their hard earned money on car audio products that they do not need.

If anyone cares to simply look at the electrical properties of how a cap works they would see it is just a huge marketing ploy and they need to go back into the world of computers where they came from.

You can't dispute the little thing called "The law of physics" and how and where current is created and flows.

I never said I am a stereo guru nor did I imply there were any on this board, my history and reputation stand on it's own merits.

And as for Biggs and Eldridge, I have been to the same place they are and what does it tell you when we share the same mind set regarding the cap issue.

Feel free to email me any time

I just had to give you hell about the Biggs and Eldridge thing! He is my "HERO" LOL We just happen to have different opinions about the capacitor so I am letting it go at that. As long as we can respect each others ideas and opinions, we will not have any problems from here on out. Thank you for your input!

 

[GNandTTA]

competitor or SPL car and they don't have caps, just big alternators and batterie

The key word there being competitor, not daily driver. Big alternators deliver big current at high rpms. But they don't do jack at idle. For a daily driver stick with the factory alt.

Caps do help. Alternators and batteries are slow in comparison to caps when it comes to delivering short bursts of current. They have a much lower internal resistance than a battery or alternator. Plus most caps are usually mounted right next to the amps.

That is why most good amps (car and home) have large caps right on the circuit board. By adding an external cap you are just adding more avaliable fast current.

 

[Audiowizard]

Originally posted by GNandTTA
"The key word there being competitor, not daily driver. Big alternators deliver big current at high rpms. But they don't do jack at idle. For a daily driver stick with the factory alt."

Couldn't agree more............

Originally posted by GNandTTA
"Caps do help. Alternators and batteries are slow in comparison to caps when it comes to delivering short bursts of current. They have a much lower internal resistance than a battery or alternator. Plus most caps are usually mounted right next to the amps."

I couldn't have said it any better!

 

[88 CuttyClassic]

not going to compete so i'm not adding an extra battery. But i will add a cap, proably a 1.0 farad. You said to put the cap as close to the amp as possible but i aren't the caps supposed be after the dist block. How would the cap be effective on both amps then.