HP.., Set-up, and et`s....a lesson learned!

[REGALTURBO]

First trip to the track with my new set-up. I wasn`t satisfied with my results but then I kinda was. I should first say that last year I had a basically stock motor with the addition of a TE-44, 3in THDP, 3in exhaust, Walbro 340, and 42# injectors. My result was 12.30 with a 1.77 60 ft @ 111mph on BFGs and 21#s of boost.
After a complete rebuilt..I added Ross pistons, 214/214 comp cam, Champion ported irons, Champion ported intake, Jay Jackson TB, Art Carr 9in, all the upgrades from the previous year and of course air bags and boxed lower control arms. I had figured high 11s should have been obtainable..maybe even mid-11s.
An older drag racer and experienced bracket racer once told me long time ago that what you think you will run will always be much slower. I guess thats what makes those bracket guys experienced because they were right. My absolute best I could get was a 12.50 with a 1.95 60ft. My mph was still up there at 110 and 111. But I was blowing my tires off out of the hole. I should add that I was launching my car the previous year at 4-5 pounds boost when I ran the 1.77 60 ft. This year I had to launch at no boost. I was a little on the conservative side with only 15pounds max boost but I was concentrating on that 60 ft. An easy, soft finessed launch was what was needed to get this car to hook. My best 60 ft @ 1.95 was with 12psi of air in the BFGs and 13 psi of air in the right side air bag. The higher I went in air pressure the worse it got.
I `d like to here from some people who experienced similar results after a rebuild or upgrade and what they did or did not do to get their new set-up to work. Also, based on the info I`ve stated, I`m open for suggestions to help me tune in the right direction.

 

[UNGN]

Put 16-18 psi in the tires and 25 psi in the right side airbag. You have more HP now, but I'm guessing the tires or the track or both were just bad that night. Drag radials aren't designed to work at 12 psi. Obey all the rules of drag radials (there are many) and run on a prepped/clean track if you are going to keep trying them.

Otherwise a set of 28X9 slicks may be the answer.

 

[Red Regal T]

One trip to the track doesn't tell the story. I'd guess the track wasn't sticky at all that night.

 

[turbodave231]

The 9" AC converter will cost you top end MPH. I'm guessing that if you could hook the car it will be in the high 11's. You need some slicks! 26X10 or 28X9!!

DR

 

[CHARGED]

After all the money you just spent you didn't get slicks
or suspension parts?

Spend the $450.00 on slicks and tubes, then launch at 6-10psi and get atleast consistant 1.6's

I'd take out some air in the bags, something like 7 and 2 psi in the rear bags and let the car squat more.

The lack of MPH would concern me a little with the mods you have BUT you can't really tune a car that's all over the track spining its wheels half way down the track all the time .

 

[BLACK6PACK]

His mph sucks cuz he was only running 15 lbs of boost. Turn that thing up to 25psi, put some slicks on there and you should run some mid to low 11s at 118mph. Then get a bigger turbo and you'll be in the 10s

 

[REGALTURBO]

I do agree with you guys that my mph is alittle off. As Black6pack stated..I was only on 15#s boost. I know there is alot more in there but I was being cautious as I wanted to feel the motor out throughout the run. I will turn it up when I go again. My main focus is on the 60ft. I need to get it into the 1.6s to be in the elevens where I feel my motor is capable of running.
UNGN says 25psi on the right side air bag. Charged says take it out and run around 7 to 2 psi. Two opposite ends of the spectrum. You guys have me scratching my head.
I will say this. My first run was with 18psi of air in the BFGs and 20psi of air in the right side air bag. This resulted in my worst 60ft of 2.09. Car didn`t squat much and didn`t seem to transfer the weight like it should.
Also, I`ve heard many theories on the drag radials. I`ve seen some tests in Hot Rod magazine where they ran them with 12psi with as good of results as the Mickey Thompson ET Streets. I also got video of my car this weekend with the side wall wrinkling on the BFGs when I lowered them to 12 psi. I`m not sure if this is what made the difference but it was my best pass.

 

[REGALTURBO]

One more thing...I do agree with Charged, Slicks would probably end this discussion. But any one with any brains will only run slicks with better axles and studs. Maybe I should have said that I still had the stock axles in the car. I`ve seen it to many times where people come to the track with slicks and blow their axles right out of the car. Only to find all the stock components in the rear end.
That is the solution but..slicks and tubes $450.00, axles and studs $300-400.00. Labor also. Easy $1000.00 complete.
I`d be willing to pay for a seed for a money tree if anyone has any.
In all seriousness...that is in the future. In time.

 

[UNGN]

Originally posted by REGALTURBO
Also, I`ve heard many theories on the drag radials. I`ve seen some tests in Hot Rod magazine where they ran them with 12psi with as good of results as the Mickey Thompson ET Streets. I also got video of my car this weekend with the side wall wrinkling on the BFGs when I lowered them to 12 psi. I`m not sure if this is what made the difference but it was my best pass.

In that Hot Rod article they admit they don't know to hook with Drag Radials. They ended up running a 1.70 best with a 10 second car set up strictly for drag racing. Big deal. I've done that with 24 psi in a 12 second TR set up for autocross.

If you had two flat regular BFG Radial T/A's you could cut a 1.90 60 ft. The idea is to maximize contact patch. Flat tires have a large contact patch at rest, but once it starts to rotate, it's smaller properly inflated tire (and a whole lot less efficient)

Find a piece of concrete somewhere and do some launchs until you get even contact pactchs right to left and across the width of the tires

The key to running fast is to not change a lot of things every run. Run one set up for a baseline then change one thing at a time.

 

[MSDGN]

But any one with any brains will only run slicks with better axles...

Guess I don't have any brains cause I've been using slicks with stock size studs for awhile now...low 1.7...high 1.6 60 fts and haven't trashed my axles yet...have other friends doing the same and no problems...I am going to put in HD Moser axles but only because my 60 fts have started to dip into the 1.5's and I'm launching harder than I did before...as for the cost of slicks/axles the slicks can be had for $300...don't need tubes...Moser axles around $250...as for installation/labor the axles are a piece of cake to install...

 

[CHARGED]

I think most people on here think the stock axles and studs will hold up to 1.6's, I've done it 20-30 times a year at the track for the last 4yrs in both my cars. Not saying its not a good thing to go with better axles but they should be OK. Consistant 1.5's is where you need to upgrade IMO.
Didn't see the (only 15psi) in your original thread, so 111mph is OK.
I'll probably need to upgrade my axles since the H&R LCA's and the ATR bar I just put on plus new Hoosier slicks should(hope) keep me in the 1.5's consistantly

 

[REGALTURBO]

No offense to the "no brains" statement here gentlemen. That was just a figure of speech. My point about that was this. I do know that stock studs and axles could hold up. I`ve seen 10 sec. buicks run with them in. It just that anyone who has ever been at a track long enough will know that eventually you will reach that breaking point. So why wait till it happens. How many times have we seen that guy blow out his axles only to cause problems on the track. Wait to get pulled off. Clean up the gear oil if any on the track. Piss off the track officials and the racers. Not a position I`d like to be in but it happens all the time. With my current situation I`d rather that breaking point be my tires.
Back to the BFGs...I agree with you UNGN on the article. Furthermore...any magazine article will push the truth a little about any product in an effort to sell them, plain and simple.I`ve also read somewhere that drag radials are capable of withstanding the horsepower levels upwards of 1500. I`d like to see that for myself. I`m still curious as to why you think more air pressure in the air bags will be better versus CHARGED`s theory of less. Not trying to start an arguement here but just trying to understand the logic behind your opinion.
In terms of the slicks..what would you guys recommend on size. I see 28x9s and 26x10s. With my convertor size..what would be best?

 

[UNGN]

The bigger the converter, the taller the tire you should go. Not only to keep you from running out of RPM's from the excess slip, but because the loose TC increases torque multiplication, and the taller tire helps decrease torque multiplication (hopefully to the point where wheelspin is controlled).

optimum airbag pressure depends on a lot of things. From how much gas you have, whether or not you are running a spare, the type of shocks and springs you have, etc. To find out what works best for your particular car is trial error and observation. You should have someone watching your car launch and telling you what is happening. Paying attention to what tire spins first, which way the car goes, and so on.

You want the car to plant itself. Try very hard not to pedal the car. It should leave in one fluid motion with your foot to the floor. If the car doesn't want to plant, try leaving at lower boost.

 

[turbowrenchhead]

I got a 1.77 60ft with a completly stock rearend. No air bags. On BFG drag radials.

 

[REGALTURBO]

I believe in your theory of launching the car in one fluid motion. But simply put, my new set-up will not allow me to do that. Putting the pedal to the floor just boils the tires and destroys my 60ft.It is neccessary to launch the car with no boost at all. And feather the pedal to the floor.
My rear suspension consists of this, upper and lower Hochkis control arms,stock springs and air bags.Shocks new but stock application. No drag shock or anything like that.
I did notice that the car felt very stiff on the launch. Like the back didn`t want to squat. I ran with 1/2 a tank of Cam2 110 and with the spare tire and jack removed.I just seemed like when I had 20psi of air in the right side air bag that the car didn`t seem to like it. Very stiff unless that was because of the excessive tire spin not making the car squat like it should.
I know Jack Cotton ran high tens with his car on BFGs, maybe I should contact him for some ideas on how he launched his car and his suspension set-up.