I have a 10.70 T-Type that I pretty much run on race gas all of the time(its a Saturday night car). I was wondering how much of a cooling effect I could get with alcohol to maybe get a little better performance and a little extra fuel would be a plus also since I have reached the limits of my 55 pound injectors. I am not opposed to doing a DIY kit or buying a kit as long as I feel I can get a reasonable gain even when running race gas. I may eventually try to run pump gas and alky but I have my car tuned correctly now so at least for the short term I will be using the race gas with alky. Do you think I could get a worth while gain with race gas plus alky?
How much of cooling effect can I expect with alky?
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
I talk to the guys at ECS alot as well as ather guys cause I build for an engine shop and I'm an enthusiast.You asked if you would get a worthwile cooling effect with alky.I am doing a kit on my vette that runs a magcharger and I'm adding a 100 shot nitrous and alky.I set up an appointment at Kennedy in Niagra Falls to check the tune,AFR etc because they are experienced with dual power adders and when I told the owner that I wanted to run straight alky he said that I should run some water if I wanted any worthwile cooling effect,that straight alky wouldnt cool as well.Thats why I told you I heard it from a tuner.I dont have the experience yet to answer your question--Thanx for the welcome,I registered here cause I just bought a T-type and you guys have alot more experience with alky than the vette crowd.
Speedz06 said:
I can state as fact, that so far, I've seen more of a drop in MAT, with Alky then with an Alky/water mix. And the EGTs also showed a drop.
In the past, I've run, supplimential fuel/ water for charge cooling, (both with and without I/Cs) and to date, the Razor Kit, has been the most effective in dropping MATs, and EGTs, using straight alky.
If you want to further examine some of my logs, to support the above, some of them have been posted at:
http://www.t6p.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=43
Now, for you're rather one of a kind blown, nitrous, setup you **might** get into an area where water would be better chemically then just straight alky, but that's something that would need to be experimented with, IMO.
BTW, are you sure he wasn't on a different page, and talking about the cooling system. In that case, yes, water is better then a glycol based coolant.
Bruce with you experience with Methanol injection with and without intercoolers. Whats is your opinion on intercoolers and methanol injection, if you are using a high % alcohol ,say 50% and above of the total fuel flow. Are intercoolers actualy required/beneficial when you are using this much alcohol/cooling/anti detonation. As the indy cars had amazing turbo power outputs with 100% methanol and no intercoolers. In other words will the intercooler give you more power if you had 100% methanol injection into each cylinder, as the restriction on the turbo system and weight of the cooler/plumbing have to be included also.
HEMI T04 said:
There comes a point when you run *enough* alky/ fuel, for in cylinder cooling that you start running out of air. You can pack in all the fuel (methanol, gasoline, nitro, nitrous), you want, but the problem becomes having enough O2 to make max HP.
The first order of business, IMO, is getting the air charge as cool as possible. Then packing all the fuel you can burn into the chamber, and balancing that with whatever in-cylinder cooling additives, you're allowed, and tuning that for max HP.
So, what I've wound up doing, is running the biggest, most effective Intercooler that I could find (ie a Cotton's), and running the best designed Alky Kit I could find, ie Razor's.
FWIW, as I recall the Indy rules didn't allow for Intercooling, so no one experimented much with them. If the rules had allowed them, I'd imagine then all the cars would have had them.
If I was racing in a class, where I could run gas or alky, I'd run alky. If I had the choice of gasoline, with an intercooler, OR alky without an intercooler, I'd have to spend alot of time, figuring out what that application would benefit most from having.
Local experiment.. 42 PSI on a 10:1 motor pump gas/meth inj.
3 M15's@200 PSI on a 4 cyl(4G63) Mitsubishi motor.. that will be done in a month. Pretty much shutting down the fuel when it goes into boost and running it on alcohol.. Doing so with an AEM.. I'll post details when it happens.. broom or not
3 M15's@200 PSI on a 4 cyl(4G63) Mitsubishi motor.. that will be done in a month. Pretty much shutting down the fuel when it goes into boost and running it on alcohol.. Doing so with an AEM.. I'll post details when it happens.. broom or not
KLHAMMETT said:
Running sans I/C, and with the stocker at high boost, I've seen MATs over 200dF, *going thur the traps*.
Nowadays, with my Cotton's I generally see ~20dF above ambient, in cruise mode. With any other setup I generally saw, about 20dF, less then the coolant temp.. So on a 90dF day, with a 180dF thermostat, with a stocker I'd expect to see 160dF MAT, and with a Cotton's, about 110dF (under cruise, around town driving). Then at WOT with a stocker on a real hot day, after a pass, about 200dF, and with the Cotton's about there would be no real change from start to finish, in MATs. Again, your results may vary...
To some degree, the hotter the oil, the higher the MATs.
Staging at times (or a hot soak in the staging lanes), can put ALOT of heat into the MATs.
Just covering the *obvious* for those just tuning in...
Bruce thanks for the info--if I run straight alky then will I have to lean my tune a bit?The main reason I'm doing this is for cooling and to eliminate a very intermittant knock retard on hot days after sitting in traffick.otherwise the car is tuned pretty well.I originally was going to go with a smaller pulley and use alky to make up the diff in fuel / knock protection.But I dont want to depend on the alky like that so since my car runs kinda fat now will the alky cause a drop in performance?Basically my question is--How do I go about lowering my intake temps for more power?
