heres one for you engine builders

Joined
Jun 25, 2004
any body running a tight quench(piston to head clearence) to avoid detonation. say 5 thousandths out. i know we do it on n/a motors to run more compression on pump gas didnt know if any buick builders did and how it would effect your combo and behavior on the street with a turbo.
also do you think ceramic poating piston is worth it?
 
just a nuder 6 said:
any body running a tight quench(piston to head clearence) to avoid detonation. say 5 thousandths out. ......... also do you think ceramic poating piston is worth it?
Quench will reduce detonation in any engine, but, not sure if you want to run that tight. You have to account for expansion. I would shoot for the 0.025 - 0.030 range.

Ceramic works as well but, I'll leave the ceramic question to the experts.
 
Jerryl said:
Quench will reduce detonation in any engine, but, not sure if you want to run that tight. You have to account for expansion. I would shoot for the 0.025 - 0.030 range.

Ceramic works as well but, I'll leave the ceramic question to the experts.
yeah sorry i didnt clearify i 5 thousanths out of the hole not 5 thousanths total. i just havnt heard it talk about much on this board and was wondering if any one did it.
 
just a nuder 6 said:
yeah sorry i didnt clearify i 5 thousanths out of the hole not 5 thousanths total. i just havnt heard it talk about much on this board and was wondering if any one did it.
It has been done I am sure (Pretty sure I read it somewhere). I thought about doing it and was close to making that final decision, but ........... maybe on the next motor ........ in 10 years :eek:
 
just a nuder 6 said:
yeah sorry i didnt clearify i 5 thousanths out of the hole not 5 thousanths total. i just havnt heard it talk about much on this board and was wondering if any one did it.
The engine im about to put in my blue car is .002 out of the hole. I run a .040 cometic head gasket. I wouldnt go any less than .030 piston to head. I dont recommend milling the block to get the pistons up higher though.If you run a full floater you can easily have the rods lengthened center to center to get the pisons up a little higher. Or you could offset grind you crank a little and pick up a few cubes at the same time. Or just order pistons with the compression height you need to put the pistons where you want.
 
Geez... I'm running 0.020" in the hole on mine just so if I have to redeck the block after a gasket burst I can without worrying about piston to head clearance. Atleast I have the Diamond chamber profiled pistons.
 
Personally, I wouldnt run more than a zero deck. But any time you do this, one side of the piston may be sticking out say, .005, the other side .005 below deck, and the middle at zero. The squaring of decks at the factory on these older pushrod motors is horrendous, because of the old worn out gang tooling they used. I used to see blocks that had a deck that was crooked by .020" on the short distance, .040-.050" on the long distance, and out of square by quite a bit....also they would have 2 different deck heights. But this is a worst case scenario. Most of the blocks machined in the mid 80's and later arent that bad, but I still did see some that were pretty F'd up. If you want an accurate piston depth, make sure to find a shop that has a squaring fixture, and have them use this to zero deck your block. It has a bar that goes through the mains, and there are 2 plates connected to this bar. The whole thing is tied together by a long bar of all thread that runs through the cam journals. Then 2 threaded cones screw into the 2 end cam journals. The whole block/fixture assembly is put into a decking machine, and those 2 plates get zerod in, (the 2 angles on those plates are a perfect 90 degrees apart..the plates simulate a perfect square deck) instead of the deck being used as a reference. You have to consider rod stretch and a few other minor things, so having the piston out of the hole isnt a great idea. Before a block gets bored, there is a conical shaped tool with sandpaper on it, thats used to grind a quick chamfer around the top of the bore. Make sure the shop you use, keeps this chamfer to an absolute minimum, or the quench achieved by all these tricks will be thrown in the garbage. They can be a little more aggresive in the areas around the valves (for unshrouding), but other than that, keep the chamfer very small. My old work, JMS racing engines in monrovia, ca. has one. My buddy told me that JMS was on the history channel a couple weeks ago, on a history of hot rodding episode. I cant believe how famous they're getting now. They're used by all the hot rod magazines out there now too.
 
VadersV6 said:
Personally, I wouldnt run more than a zero deck. But any time you do this, one side of the piston may be sticking out say, .005, the other side .005 below deck, and the middle at zero. The squaring of decks at the factory on these older pushrod motors is horrendous, because of the old worn out gang tooling they used. I used to see blocks that had a deck that was crooked by .020" on the short distance, .040-.050" on the long distance, and out of square by quite a bit....also they would have 2 different deck heights. But this is a worst case scenario. Most of the blocks machined in the mid 80's and later arent that bad, but I still did see some that were pretty F'd up. If you want an accurate piston depth, make sure to find a shop that has a squaring fixture, and have them use this to zero deck your block. It has a bar that goes through the mains, and there are 2 plates connected to this bar. The whole thing is tied together by a long bar of all thread that runs through the cam journals. Then 2 threaded cones screw into the 2 end cam journals. The whole block/fixture assembly is put into a decking machine, and those 2 plates get zerod in, (the 2 angles on those plates are a perfect 90 degrees apart..the plates simulate a perfect square deck) instead of the deck being used as a reference. You have to consider rod stretch and a few other minor things, so having the piston out of the hole isnt a great idea. Before a block gets bored, there is a conical shaped tool with sandpaper on it, thats used to grind a quick chamfer around the top of the bore. Make sure the shop you use, keeps this chamfer to an absolute minimum, or the quench achieved by all these tricks will be thrown in the garbage. They can be a little more aggresive in the areas around the valves (for unshrouding), but other than that, keep the chamfer very small. My old work, JMS racing engines in monrovia, ca. has one. My buddy told me that JMS was on the history channel a couple weeks ago, on a history of hot rodding episode. I cant believe how famous they're getting now. They're used by all the hot rod magazines out there now too.
This is what i had done to my last engine. The deck was a mess. I was shooting for a zero deck, but wound up .002 out. Im not to worried about it. If it were .010 out i wouldnt worry either. Ive ran .030 piston to head in the past with loose forged pistons (JE's at .004) and full floated, and no problems with interference. I have seen some blocks that were over chamfered as stated above. Be sure the machinist knows that you want the minimum chamfer.
 
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