Having engine work done for the 1st time.

[Black Sunshine]

Hello,

I am having my engine torn down for the first time. I am keeping the stock heads and pistons. I am replacing the cam. I was considering getting the Revolution X Roller Cam Kit Morel Lifter from full throttle. I don't want to loose too much streetability so I am only getting a 206/210 cam. Will I need to get roller rockers or will this kit work with stock rockers anyone know? Secondly is a engine girdle needed? Lastly, the harmonic balancer broke upon removal. I was pretty surprised how easily it broke and was wondering if it was a good idea to get one that is better than stock? Thanks in advance.

 

[Jeff Rand]

Unusual that a stock balancer would fail but I would get another one and more on to having the rotating assembly balanced after all the machining on assembly is completed. You will also need to replace the valve springs. I would not go the girdle route; it is over kill for your setup.

 

[Black Sunshine]

Yea the balancer broke in half shortly after the puller was placed on it. The kit I'm looking at comes with beehive springs.

 

[2QUICK2B6]

did all steel mains an girdle on my 20. over

 

[earlbrown]

You shouldn't have used a puller. The balancer to crank snout isn't a press fit.


also, you might want to slide a bore gauge down the block before you commit to reusing the pistons.

 

[Black Sunshine]

How hard is it to convert to roller just by putting a different cam and lifters in? The guy doing my work is getting cold feet because he never agreed to convert it do a roller and doesn't know how hard of a process it is...

 

[Black Sunshine]

Also, would I save allot of labor by buying a roller rocker as opposed to using a stock rocker?

 

[WPP-Bill]

How hard is it to convert to roller just by putting a different cam and lifters in? The guy doing my work is getting cold feet because he never agreed to convert it do a roller and doesn't know how hard of a process it is...

You need to toss the 100 lber valve springs and put roller springs on. Maybe that's why the guy doing the work is getting cold feet or is he unfamiliar with performance upgrades to these engines?

You can get by with the stock rockers using holddowns on the shafts. Though roller rockers with hardened shafts is preferred. Regardless, the labor involved with R&Ring the rockers is rather minimal.

 

[Black Sunshine]

Yes the kit I would get comes with beehive springs, retainers, locks, and a cam button I believe. Sorry for not putting enough info

 

[WPP-Bill]

If the guy working on your engine does not know how hard it is to upgrade to a roller, what else does he not know? I'm not trying to be mean, but these engines are unique. I've seen many come in for rebuilds shortly after someone else rebuilt them. Seeing internal carnage is not a good sight nor do I like to be the bearer of bad news in such cases. Thankfully you are asking questions, which is important. But it's the questions you don't ask and communicate to your builder that might just come back to bite you. If your builder is uncomfortable about installing a roller cam, ensuring proper lifter preload and valve adjustment, you may want to make some changes (not the roller cam either).

 

[earlbrown]

How hard is it to convert to roller just by putting a different cam and lifters in? The guy doing my work is getting cold feet because he never agreed to convert it do a roller and doesn't know how hard of a process it is...

It's easy. The only difference is a roller will have to have endplay set. I have heard of some people using a plain ole spring loaded cam button but I personally have never done that. In that case, 'converting' to roller is the exact same thing as installing a flat tappet cam.


Sounds to me like you need to distance yourself from that ''builder''. Sounds more like an 'assembler' to me.



And on your roller rockers question, it's more work to go roller. The pedestals on the heads will have to be narrowed.

 

[Black Sunshine]

it's ok I'm not offended. He has experience with other motors and personally build the one he uses in his car, but he doesn't have any with ours. I am hoping that with the shop manual I have, the wealth of info this site can provide would be enough. I now know the manual won't be of help if I want to go roller. I didn't know that there were various design upgrades for our cars. I thought there were better than stock quality parts, but same design. I don't know....maybe I should stick with flat tappet. I just want what is best for my car and have the best upgrades for my baby that I can afford. Is roller really a dramatic improvement? Do they make better than stock quality flat tappet parts? Is there other vendors i should he looking at besides full throttle? This is a summer cruise car not a dedicated race car, but mid 11s would be cool. Thanks for the responses guys and keeep em coming. This is a big step for me with the car.

 

[Black Sunshine]

Also my friend isn't doing all the work. I am taking the block and the heads to a machine shop as there is only so much he can do out of his garage.

 

[REAPER231]

Roller cam is the way to go , I did ten yrs ago still going strong on my 109 build with full throttle 210/215 roller setup and 48,000 miles later and mine a mid to low 10 sec build .i still run factory rocker shafts with HD Rjc shafts. A 206/206 roller from any of the vendors is perfect for what you want to do , depending on your combo that cam has been low teens easy with right combination .

 

[t-typinator]

The BIGGEST thing you need to understand is, THESE motors have their own set of "do's and dont's " when machining, like correct tolerances etc.( Don't just assume that your machine shop will know exactly what THIS motor needs)also installing the right parts the right way and especially when making the switch to a roller cam setup.
ALOT of people have been burned by machine shops not knowing how to build these motors correctly,Don't be the next one.
If they havn't done a bunch of these motors and are not very familiar with this particular motor,then i would move on to one that is very knowledgable about them,it may cost you a little more, and lose some of the convenience of the machine shop around the corner, but could save you ALOT of headaches/money .
I personally feel that you are better off having one set of hands on the motor, IE. the same machineshop/builder does all the work,not the machine shop doing his thing, then someone else assembling it adding roller cam etc; so that one person can't be blaming the other person for messing up your motor, if the motor fails do to machining/assembly then you know who the culprit is.
This is not meant to scare you in your build just to make sure you know to get a qualified builder for your new motor ,because these cars do need some special attention and knowledge that not every mechanic or machine shop has.
Best of luck on your new build.
Ps. on the question of " Is there a Dramatic Improvement with the roller cam," i would say no, especially in a relativly mild street motor that you are looking to build, you will also have a slightly quieter valve train without it and save a good bit of money at the same time.
I would take the extra money saved from the roller cam and put it towards gas money to bring the motor to one of the highly qualified builders on this site.
If you list your location, members can tell you where the nearest qualified builder is.

 

[Jeff Rand]

Due to the tight clearances these engines are sensitive to any machining debris. Extremely important to clean all passages with a brush (I usually use Simple Green followed by a high pressure rinse and then WD 40) before any assembly. Also all parts need to be cleaned.

 

[Black Sunshine]

Well since my last post I called the initial machine shop (Van Senus) that I plan on going to and they told me they will only do a total tear down and rebuild due to responsibility issues of not doing all the work like T-typeinator said. I understand that and will have the build part done by a shop I have came to the conclusion. I didn't tell the guy I already had the heads off and cam removed. I do still want to at least get the insides out before being brought in so I can see everything and what might be going on. Even a repuable shop is still a business and may try to upsell me on something I may not need so I feel the more I know before bringing it in the better. So hopefully they don't have an issue with me having the tear down process done already. Yes I definitely need to find out all the correct tolerances before taking it in. There are only 3 machine shops I know of in my area. One literally is around the corner, but I'm not going to that one. I heard bad things about 2 of the shops and nothing good or bad about Van Senus. I am from Merrillville in Northwest Indiana. I will post in the midwest section too and see if any ideas of a shop I don't know about is in the area.

 

[earlbrown]

It's not because roller cams are better that you need one. It's because flat tappets are crap now, flat tappet lifters are crap now, and oil has lost it's additives that help protect flat tappet camtrains.

Yes, rollers are more expensive, BUT... when a cam goes flat, it takes out the cam, the lifters, the oil cooler, the turbo, and sometimes the crank. Moral of the story, you can save a few hundred dollars and risk THOUSANDS of dollars in damage (plus, the down time of having yard art instead of a running car).

 

[GNRick]

DLS is in Indiana. Do a search on him. Maybe he has a website too.

 

[Black Sunshine]

I did a search and only got a phone number not a web site. We have the same area code so must be close which is awesome. Over on the Midwest section of these forums someone suggested a Rick Lutz. He is from Illinois about an hour away. I'm willing to go with either one and a bonus if they can tune with my MAFT pro after the build is done. Any further thoughts on either of these gentlemen anybody? Thanks again everyone.