Has anyone thought of this before

[RenR]

mating a new ball bearing unit with th old style compressor outlet flange? i dont see why it wouldnt work, just requires a lil bit of welding and fabbing. its time we take these carb'ed cars to another level

 

[jimski]

looks very interesting

 

[charlief1]

Garret has BB turbos and I've been looking into a cartridge as well as using a billet inducer. I haven't had the time to email Garret yet to see if they have a cartridge that will fit in place of the factory one but as soon as I get the time I will.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

it can be done....... and is being done. way ahead of you.

the PROBLEM is...........

there is no carbon seal for a BB turbo. You WILL NOT get a BB turbo with a carbon seal. It would almost be pointless as a BB with a carbon seal will only spool as fast as a regular journal bearing. a carbon seal drags just enough to slow it down.

 

[RenR]

it can be done....... and is being done. way ahead of you.

the PROBLEM is...........

there is no carbon seal for a BB turbo. You WILL NOT get a BB turbo with a carbon seal. It would almost be pointless as a BB with a carbon seal will only spool as fast as a regular journal bearing. a carbon seal drags just enough to slow it down.

good point, but i cant see why it would be a big deal. when your off the throttle, and vaccumm is created, the vaccum will just pull through the turbo and the carb, not just on the turbo. the vaccum at the turbo should be very minimal. The only reason it might leak through the compressor piston rings is if they are worn and have a lot of play. With a new turbo, the seals should not leak, not much any how. Ill ask some of the guys at work and see what they say on this. Ill update you guys on monday. Maybe some type of check valve on the comp outlet vented between the carb and turbo inlet( or atmoshpere) can alleviate this vaccum pressure on the compressor end seal while still keeping the same vaccum coming in through the carb. ....

 

[dr_frankenstein]

good point, but i cant see why it would be a big deal. when your off the throttle, and vaccumm is created, the vaccum will just pull through the turbo and the carb, not just on the turbo. the vaccum at the turbo should be very minimal.....

Incorrect. when you let off the gas, the throttle blades shut - causing a large vacuum on the turbo..and the Bottom of the carb..... not threw it.
hook a gauge up to it, come to full boost then let off the gas.... and watch the number it pulls.

The only reason it might leak through the compressor piston rings is if they are worn and have a lot of play. With a new turbo, the seals should not leak, not much any how.....

these seals are designed for keeping the seal at low or no vaccum, thus they have less drag and tend to be more efficent. They seal in ONE DIRECTION.

Ill ask some of the guys at work and see what they say on this. Ill update you guys on monday. Maybe some type of check valve on the comp outlet vented between the carb and turbo inlet( or atmoshpere) can alleviate this vaccum pressure on the compressor end seal while still keeping the same vaccum coming in through the carb. ....

this has been done, its very old tech. Made by ROTOMASTER or SHELBY/SPEARCO. it was a check valve system that allowed you to idle and cruise threw the carb only, and sealed those shut during boosted use. good luck finding one.... took me 6 years to find 2 basket case ones, to make one good one.

A.j.

 

[RenR]

Incorrect. when you let off the gas, the throttle blades shut - causing a large vacuum on the turbo..and the Bottom of the carb..... not threw it.
hook a gauge up to it, come to full boost then let off the gas.... and watch the number it pulls.

right but we agree its not just on the turbo. the engine still has the need for air at vaccum, which must come through the turbo AND through the carb. So we are saying the same thing. Maybe to say the vacuum at the turbo is minimal is incorrect. it would be equal through the entire flow path.

these seals are designed for keeping the seal at low or no vaccum, thus they have less drag and tend to be more efficent. They seal in ONE DIRECTION.

to say they seal in one direction is incorrect. the rings hold oil in and boost pressure out of the crankcase. worn rings cause oil leaks and increased crankcase pressure. This can be from either the compressor or turbine end also.. [/QUOTE]

this has been done, its very old tech. Made by ROTOMASTER or SHELBY/SPEARCO. it was a check valve system that allowed you to idle and cruise threw the carb only, and sealed those shut during boosted use. good luck finding one.... took me 6 years to find 2 basket case ones, to make one good one.

A.j.

Got any pics of this?? i think if we put our brains to this we can make it work. i have gt30 sitting in my garage that i never got to use that im willing to mod for this. im just trying to find an old comp housing to chop up.

 

[charlief1]

right but we agree its not just on the turbo. the engine still has the need for air at vaccum, which must come through the turbo AND through the carb. So we are saying the same thing. Maybe to say the vacuum at the turbo is minimal is incorrect. it would be equal through the entire flow path.

Think about it this way. If, from the carb to the turbo you're under vac all the time, and the turbo can't really tell the difference. After the turbo you're under presure on acceleration but off acceleration you're under vac. If you add a hose to the intake and put it in a bottle of water it will push bubles into the bottle under boost and suck water when you go into vac. The seals are not the same design so when under vac it can't seal the turbo enough and oil comes out.

to say they seal in one direction is incorrect. the rings hold oil in and boost pressure out of the crankcase. worn rings cause oil leaks and increased crankcase pressure. This can be from either the compressor or turbine end also..

There are 2 different seals for turbos. The one on the carb/turbo design is different from the SFI and aren't interchangable. If you use the 86-87 center as a complete unit it will allow oil to be sucked into the engine when you close the throttle. The earlier one used a carbon hard seal and the newer ones don't.

 

[RenR]

i totaly understand what you guys are saying. i just refuse to beleive theres no way in hell to run a newer bb type turbo on a carb setup. Or Even a t3/t4 upgrade would be nicer than stock... i havent seen any pics or heard of anyone upgrading their stock units with an aftermarket turbo. anybody got some good links?

 

[Boostnitup]

Why can't you weld in an extension to that concept of an adaption and run a blow off valve that would allow for decelleration? So what if you get some oil blow thru? How much are we talking about?

You guys aren't going to make this a smog test item are you? :biggrin:

 

[charlief1]

i totaly understand what you guys are saying. i just refuse to beleive theres no way in hell to run a newer bb type turbo on a carb setup. Or Even a t3/t4 upgrade would be nicer than stock... i havent seen any pics or heard of anyone upgrading their stock units with an aftermarket turbo. anybody got some good links?

Look at the bottom of my sig for an upgrade.

Why can't you weld in an extension to that concept of an adaption and run a blow off valve that would allow for decelleration? So what if you get some oil blow thru? How much are we talking about?

You guys aren't going to make this a smog test item are you? :biggrin:

A BOV on a carb/turbo set up would, at the very least, cause a backfire. In a worst case situation it would cause a fire. Air/fuel mix in together would be a nasty suprise to say the least.

 

[Boostnitup]

Can't adapt a blow thru carb to such a set up?

Works on my supercharged Mustang just fine...

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Can't adapt a blow thru carb to such a set up?

Works on my supercharged Mustang just fine...

this has been done and it makes a good amount of power. BUT..... that is a total revision of intake design. just as I mentioned above. Power should easily be in the same range as an intercooled car as you can use all of the same pieces. the difference is that I would use a good 4bbl intake and a carb made for blow thru.

A Draw Thru system is a breed all of its own, it requires special seals and has to be engineered to fit the requirements so you need to realize that the carbon seal is the key to taking the A/F mixture into a turbo... theres a reason why the early days of turbo were full of bad ideas and mistakes.

:biggrin: A.j.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Got any pics of this?? i think if we put our brains to this we can make it work. i have gt30 sitting in my garage that i never got to use that im willing to mod for this. im just trying to find an old comp housing to chop up.

OK, here is one of my ROTOMASTER adapters, and the system that I am setting up for my engine.

A.j.

 

[Boostnitup]

If power is the intent... a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator, a blow thru carb... an aftermarket aluminum radiator... MSD boost control ignition system... and I can't see it costing much more than some of the other ideas already being floated out there.

You should be able to pick up a blow thru Carb on Ebay. :biggrin:

 

[WarWagon]

Nice stuff A.J.
I Found some things for you!!! like the other carburetor I couldn't find AND a lot other compressor covers, one more CHRA, carb plenums and an .82 a/r turbine housing and some other goodies. I still have your address and as soon as I can get some cash together I'll send this stuff out too you, I don't need it and I sold you all of the other stuff I had so your getting this stuff too.

 

[charlief1]

Welcome to the bastard children section.:biggrin: What took you so long?:tongue: lol It's a little different here so do some reading on what We're doing around here and hope you like it.:biggrin:

 

[WarWagon]

lol Yeah I kinda feel like the man here, lol I've been here many times in the past and used all the info here succesfully back when I had a stock drawthru setup

 

[charlief1]

lol Yeah I kinda feel like the man here, lol I've been here many times in the past and used all the info here succesfully back when I had a stock drawthru setup

So how'd you do with the factory stuff? As you can see some of us are trying to do some improvements for a little more power.:biggrin: Since I'm trying to keep my expenditures to a minimum right now I'll be on the side lines, in a mannor of speaking. Welcome back.:biggrin:

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Nice stuff A.J.
I Found some things for you!!! like the other carburetor I couldn't find AND a lot other compressor covers, one more CHRA, carb plenums and an .82 a/r turbine housing and some other goodies. I still have your address and as soon as I can get some cash together I'll send this stuff out too you, I don't need it and I sold you all of the other stuff I had so your getting this stuff too.

Hey Whats up! welcome back to the dark side! we have cookies! HA!

Thanks for finding all those parts! I really appreciate it!

A.j.