Have searched multiple forums and have many answers but it sounds like the accumulator. Question I have is this essentially happened in a second. Car has been driven less than 15 miles this year, and drove fine both occasions. So yesterday I'm planning on driving to Bakers of Milford to take in the day. Drove the car around the block just to warm it up and then parked it in the garage. Spent a couple hours detailing the old girl and then moved the car to the 3rd bay to sit while I cleaned up. As I'm backing into the stall the brake pedal goes hard, brake light comes on, and I have little to no braking ability. Needless to say I parked it. I don't use the AC, it does need a recharge, and as mentioned the car has only been driven twice this year. Based on what I see it would appear the accumulator has choked and needs to be replaced. It seems I would have seen or felt some warning before this happened. Thankfully it did not happen while driving around the sub to warm the engine... confirmation it's the accumulator? Many thanks for any responses...
Hard pedal, no brakes, brake light on...
- Thread starter dz28
- Start date
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Sounds like it's time for a new accu, and a system flush...
Mine did the same thing.. Good 1 minute, dead player the next. Once the bladder breaks, it's all over, except the "sad singing, and the slow walking"....
Mine did the same thing.. Good 1 minute, dead player the next. Once the bladder breaks, it's all over, except the "sad singing, and the slow walking"....
ditto.....happened to me a week ago.....
but very well could be the acc ball or grey pressure switch
well CRAP!!!
Just spent a couple a hundie, installed a new accumulator and nothing has changed. Still have a brake light, still have a hard pedal, and no measurable differences.
I did the pressure down as instructed, checked the 30 amp fuse(it is good), exchanged accumulators, powered up the Buick and no change. What are my next steps??
Thankzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Just spent a couple a hundie, installed a new accumulator and nothing has changed. Still have a brake light, still have a hard pedal, and no measurable differences. I did the pressure down as instructed, checked the 30 amp fuse(it is good), exchanged accumulators, powered up the Buick and no change. What are my next steps??
Thankzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
well CRAP!!!
I did the pressure down as instructed, checked the 30 amp fuse(it is good), exchanged accumulators, powered up the Buick and no change. What are my next steps??
Thankzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
What condition is your brake fluid in? Is it black, cloudy or crystal clear? Cloudy or frothy brake fluid is a sign that there is air in the braking system.
If it's not crystal clear, I would get a turkey baster and VERY CAREFULLY suck the old brake fluid out of the reservoir. Turn off car and pump brake pedal 10-12 times to empty brake fluid from the accumulator ball into the master cylinder brake reservoir before u suck out the old fluid. Be sure not to get any brake fluid on your paint- use a fender protector and towels.
Replace fluid with Valvoline Syntethic DOT 3-4. I once read that using Valvoline Syntethic cleared up the red brake light syndrome. DO NOT USE SILICONE BRAKE FLUID. The brake reservoir has 2 sections. Fill the section closet to the fender completely full. Fill the section closet to the engine about half full.
Then you will have to bench bleed the master cylinder and bleed each wheel cylinder to get any air out of the system. Look up zeus87gn sig for great tech tips on how to properly bleed the powermaster system.
If u are not using the GN for a while it's a good idea to pump the brake pedal 10 times after u shut car off. This will empty the brake accumulator ball of the brake fluid.
These Powermaster brakes don't like to sit- they like to be used. Fresh brake fluid every 1 or 2 years is critical.
I changed my brake fluid last summer and I just changed the fluid again this weekend bc the fluid was cloudy- I didn't bench bleed the master cylinder but I will soon.
U might have to change the fluid again in a few weeks after the fluid has had a chance to circulate the brake lines.
There are 2 different accumulators- the brake accumulator is the black brake accumulator ball that holds brake fluid as a reserve in case of an emergency brake failure. the AC accumulator or receiver/drier is a filter for the AC that has nothing to do with the brakes.
It might also be the brake switch. Hopefully it is not a black switch because those are the original ones that were recalled. Your brake switch should be gray and black - if i recall correctly- but there should defintely be some gray. Try changing the brake fluid first and bleed. Hopefully, this will fix the light. If not, then u have to read trobleshooting guide which is listed on gnttype.org website. there is a list of tests that u can perform to determine the problem- fuse, brake accumulator ball, brake switch, brake proportion valve, master cylinder pump motor.
Good luck- Research, read and be patient!
Frank
In 22 years and 3 accumulator balls I've never seen one just go "all at once". It usually starts with a flash as you apply the brakes that gets progressively worse when it gets to a point the pedal gets hard momentary as you apply the brakes.
If it "just went" then it's probably not the accumulator but the motor has quit running or you have a leak in one of the lines, wheel cylinders or maybe the pressure switch has gone.
The powermaster is different, not bad, not good just different and if you follow the diagnostics you can usually figure it out.
Powermaster Diagnostics
If it "just went" then it's probably not the accumulator but the motor has quit running or you have a leak in one of the lines, wheel cylinders or maybe the pressure switch has gone.
The powermaster is different, not bad, not good just different and if you follow the diagnostics you can usually figure it out.
Powermaster Diagnostics
Patience is definitely needed here... I appreciate the responses and agree the fluid has to change. That was on the hit list this year anyhow just need the time to do it.
I also agree it seems odd it was an all it once type occurrence. I don't drive the car much and have all of 13 miles on it this year in total. Fortunately I was not driving the car when it happened; I was backing it on to the lift and it just popped there so I dropped it in drive and went about my Sunday business....
I also agree it seems odd it was an all it once type occurrence. I don't drive the car much and have all of 13 miles on it this year in total. Fortunately I was not driving the car when it happened; I was backing it on to the lift and it just popped there so I dropped it in drive and went about my Sunday business....
well CRAP!!!
I did the pressure down as instructed, checked the 30 amp fuse(it is good), exchanged accumulators, powered up the Buick and no change. What are my next steps??
Thankzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ok, the fuse is good but is the motor running when you move the key to the ON position? You should hear it hum, buzz, whirrrr.....something, and the fluid level in the ps of the bowl should begin to drop.
Do you have the black switch?
Do you have a volt meter (DMM)? If not, do you know someone that does and knows how to use it? I mention this because if the motor is not running, and the fuse is good, there is an electrical problem that needs to be traced down. If you have never done this, you need experienced help.
You're wellllllllllllllllllllcome
:biggrin:
+1
Same thing with me on my way to the track. That was an eye opener because if it happened at the end of the 1/4 that day it would have been a mess. Switching to vacuum made a lot of sense to me at that point.
Ah what fun for the inexperienced... followed your respective troubleshooting paths... in 95 degree heat yesterday I bled the master cylinder per the directions in GNTTYPE.org and in the factory chassis manual, then turkey basted the fluid out of the reservoir (color was darker than I would have liked, kind of a brown but not real dark), then refilled with fresh DOT 3 fluid, then started working each corner with my Griot brake bleed tool, topped off the reservoir, timed the PM pump (5-6 seconds), and tried the brakes. Pedal went from hard to very soft and heard a whooshing sound (not the turbo!) and still had a brake light. So still no brakes, soft pedal now, brake light, fresh fluid through the brake lines, and a lot of wasted sweat in the lovely MI weather. Looks like it's time for someone with significantly better skills than mine to resolve the problem. It's the first week of June and I have all of 13 miles added to the odo this year. Need someone in Michigan who is a crackerjack at these PM systems... any suggestions?
The sound you have described sounds like air.
You may have gotten some air in the m/c when you changed the fluid (which stinks).
I'm not familiar with the tool you menitoned, is it a vacuum thing?
Did you bleed the wheels with the key off?
Did you cycle the acc to remove the air from it?
There is a specific order you have to bleed the P/M in to get it right.
1 - Accumulator
2 - master cylinder (if needed)
3 - wheels
You're light comes on because of low pressure in the acc. The sound you describe could be pressure releasing all at once to compress the air in the system. It happens real fast with enough air. Your 5-6 seconds to pump up (asuming from completely pumped down) is excellent!
Yes, definetely get some experienced help if you feel you need it.
BTW, if you think it's hot up there, visit us in south Ga.
You may have gotten some air in the m/c when you changed the fluid (which stinks).
I'm not familiar with the tool you menitoned, is it a vacuum thing?
Did you bleed the wheels with the key off?
Did you cycle the acc to remove the air from it?
There is a specific order you have to bleed the P/M in to get it right.
1 - Accumulator
2 - master cylinder (if needed)
3 - wheels
You're light comes on because of low pressure in the acc. The sound you describe could be pressure releasing all at once to compress the air in the system. It happens real fast with enough air. Your 5-6 seconds to pump up (asuming from completely pumped down) is excellent!
Yes, definetely get some experienced help if you feel you need it.
BTW, if you think it's hot up there, visit us in south Ga.
Griot's tool is a vacuum deal that runs off your compressor. Works great on my Camaro, not so great on my Buick apparently. Nice little tool it has a rubber hose device that goes over the brake bleeder outlet and you essentially suck the air and brake fluid out of the system. Works very slick...
Key off, started front left to front right, to right rear to left rear. I pulled fluid until it became clear and kept the reservoir full. Before going to the individual wheels I bled the master starting with the booster pipe, then loosened both lines bleeding off the rear first and finishing with the front.
I am assuming I have air in the line and probably need someone to pressure bleed the system. I just need to find someone who can troubleshoot and still have respect for the car... appreciate the help and I'll keep the post alive once I resolve this...
95 with 60% humidity is pretty hot here in Michigan. We also seem to be going crazy with thunderstorms and tornadoes and such... one just missed the house last night and tore up the trees about 1000 feet NW of me!
Key off, started front left to front right, to right rear to left rear. I pulled fluid until it became clear and kept the reservoir full. Before going to the individual wheels I bled the master starting with the booster pipe, then loosened both lines bleeding off the rear first and finishing with the front.
I am assuming I have air in the line and probably need someone to pressure bleed the system. I just need to find someone who can troubleshoot and still have respect for the car... appreciate the help and I'll keep the post alive once I resolve this...
95 with 60% humidity is pretty hot here in Michigan. We also seem to be going crazy with thunderstorms and tornadoes and such... one just missed the house last night and tore up the trees about 1000 feet NW of me!
You mention you "loosened both lines bleeding off the rear first..."
You just let fluid spill out past the fittings?
If you got air into the m/c (which it sounds like you have), bleeding at the wheels won't help, and trying to bleed it as you described above isn't real accurate. You're going to have to bench bleed it (with some clear hoses). Just do it on the car tho.
Vacuum bleeding the wheels will work fine, but it's all in the technique. If you didn't put teflon tape on the bleeder threads, you didn't get as much suction on the system as you could have. The (typical) rear cylinders are prone to bypassing air past the seals if too much suction is applied to them.
You just let fluid spill out past the fittings?
If you got air into the m/c (which it sounds like you have), bleeding at the wheels won't help, and trying to bleed it as you described above isn't real accurate. You're going to have to bench bleed it (with some clear hoses). Just do it on the car tho.
Vacuum bleeding the wheels will work fine, but it's all in the technique. If you didn't put teflon tape on the bleeder threads, you didn't get as much suction on the system as you could have. The (typical) rear cylinders are prone to bypassing air past the seals if too much suction is applied to them.
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