Gt47-88 Vs Gt42-76r

[S2V6RACER]

I guess the real bottom line is I can't figure out why he would make such a ridiculous internet brew-ha-ha over a stinking intercooler but not make a squeak about a grenaded engine.

All in the way it was handled, both situations were handled different.

 

[V6 Beast]

Sully, how would you propose to verify the flash do you understand code I know I dont. The fact that Ted set it on kill that was his choice his money what you would have done or what i would have done have nothing to do with it. Its all about choices push the envelope or lay back, but trying to put blame on the tuner for bad code is like blaming bad radio reception on a singer

Tony.. that is your opinion and I respect that. My opinion is that some vendors like to be right on the cutting edge with the latest and greatest. Sometimes that desire costs their customers.

I haven't heard of a single other FAST vendor that had a problem flashing with wrong or bad code. Why is that? Was the flash used the same one was recently announced as being availible on FAST's website? or a pre-release "test" version? Did Ted know he was the test subject? I am not saying that Cal's tune blew up Ted's motor but you have to look at everything.

Had you already thought about how close that was to being your motor before I brought it up? :biggrin:

 

[EightSecV6]

Pisssing match aside:

I still really like the old style PTE88 and it is still the turbo to beat on a GN1 style head. I can run over 150 mph with 26 psi, 24* timing and 11:0 AFR. I can pretty much bracket race the car at 8.90/9.0 with this setup at 3450#'s. At 3800#'s I think you are going to fall short with the 42/76. A 47/88 seems like a good turbo but it is physically much larger and will be more difficult to mount than the old style T4 "based PTE88 so you may want to consider those issues. IMO the jury is still out on whether the newer 47/88 is even any better than the old PTE88 on a GN1 head car.

Commenting on the 47-88 vs t4 88 on a GN1 headed car. We have done head to head testing on 2 different cars swapping back and forth between these two turbos. The 47-88 spools a little quicker BUT no substantial gains in ET or MPH. The 47-88 shows a bit more peak HP but the t4 88 is stronger through the middle so it is a wash. On Jeffs TSO car,the best he went with the t4 88 was 8.69 at 159 in Cecil with good air. In BG 2 years ago when we installed the 47-88 he went 8.78 at 157, pretty much the same. Last year we swapped out a t4 88 with a 47-88 on a S2 headed car and while it spooled faster it, put down nearly identical HP numbers on our dyno. We have also used the 47-88 on a 331" Ford NMRA drag radial car and it REALLY shined over the T4 88.
We have done some recent testing on the 42-76 vs the t4 88 on a Buick for NOPI (foot break) events and there is VERY little difference in peak HP but the 42-76 spools way faster. For the weight break you get in TSO with the
42-76 it is the ULTIMATE turbo for a GN1 headed car.

 

[Otto J]

I haven't heard of a single other FAST vendor that had a problem flashing with wrong or bad code. Why is that?

Most F.A.S.T vendors dont get any other flashes than the ones released publicly.Some vendors get flashes and are released to them for testing purpose.Sucks what happened to Ted for sure.But these things can happen not only from flashes but if fuel pumps fail mid run,Fuel injectors fail mid run.

 

[baadgn]

Tony.. that is your opinion and I respect that. My opinion is that some vendors like to be right on the cutting edge with the latest and greatest. Sometimes that desire costs their customers.

I haven't heard of a single other FAST vendor that had a problem flashing with wrong or bad code. Why is that? Was the flash used the same one was recently announced as being availible on FAST's website? or a pre-release "test" version? Did Ted know he was the test subject? I am not saying that Cal's tune blew up Ted's motor but you have to look at everything.

Had you already thought about how close that was to being your motor before I brought it up? :biggrin:

Sully,

If the customer wants to be on the leading edge of tech that is a price that he or she may have to pay. Like i said before it was teds choice to run the car hard "no gun to the head". Any flash that a company comes out with has already been tested beta wise somewhere so maybe we all should be thanking Ted. As far as my car, again it would have been my fault or my saving grace had i run my car hard or easy

 

[V6 Beast]

Most F.A.S.T vendors dont get any other flashes than the ones released publicly.Some vendors get flashes and are released to them for testing purpose.Sucks what happened to Ted for sure.But these things can happen not only from flashes but if fuel pumps fail mid run,Fuel injectors fail mid run.

Yep. Like I said to be on the cutting edge someone has to pay. This time it was Ted's turn. As long as Ted knew he was the test subject then your right Cal is not at fault. You forgot bad gas :biggrin:

 

[S2V6RACER]

Sully,

If the customer wants to be on the leading edge of tech that is a price that he or she may have to pay. Like i said before it was teds choice to run the car hard "no gun to the head". Any flash that a company comes out with has already been tested beta wise somewhere so maybe we all should be thanking Ted. As far as my car, again it would have been my fault or my saving grace had i run my car hard or easy

Tony, one thing is for sure, most guys will pay a little closer attention to these things. The XFI system with it's flash capablities has opened up a new area for possible problems not many probably ever thought about, not me that's for sure. Hopefully all will beware of that now.

I'm sure the thank you cards will hit the mail box any day now. lol.

 

[V6 Beast]

Sully,

If the customer wants to be on the leading edge of tech that is a price that he or she may have to pay. Like i said before it was teds choice to run the car hard "no gun to the head". Any flash that a company comes out with has already been tested beta wise somewhere so maybe we all should be thanking Ted. As far as my car, again it would have been my fault or my saving grace had i run my car hard or easy

As long as they know they are on the leading edge and a willing test subject then I agree with you. :biggrin:

 

[baadgn]

As long as they know they are on the leading edge and a willing test subject then I agree with you. :biggrin:

When you let sombody tune your car you become a willing test subject its all about trust. You put your trust in a vendor and Ted put trust in his what does all this mean..... nothing its racing

 

[top gun]

Tony.. that is your opinion and I respect that. My opinion is that some vendors like to be right on the cutting edge with the latest and greatest. Sometimes that desire costs their customers.

:

Sully, we all know your vendor does not have you on the cutting edge. Welcome to 1999 with the times from your 109 combo.

 

[HighPSI]

GN280ci: Feel free to call me anytime. I will be happy to help you choose the right turbo. I can be reached at (321)722-1563

My opinion is that some vendors like to be right on the cutting edge with the latest and greatest. Sometimes that desire costs their customers.

And most of the times it benefits their customers. Last weekend alone, 6 customers ran personal bests. You should be grateful people test new things. Otherwise you might not have changed intercoolers and swapped in a distributor. What's next, a better turbo, or are you still sorting out that convertor?

I haven't heard of a single other FAST vendor that had a problem flashing with wrong or bad code. Why is that?

Because most vendors, don't work as closely with FAST as I do. As a result, they only get flash updates that I have already tested, if they even update at all.

I am not saying that Cal's tune blew up Ted's motor but you have to look at everything.

I have looked at everything, Sully. I have NEVER said or even implied anything negative towards you. In fact, when you needed things from me at the first two races, I helped. In return, you get behind the keyboard and try and discredit me along with many other inuendo's. Then you wonder why I ignore you at the next race.

BTW: Was the picture on the internet of the guy checking the oil and polishing his rims , using the Hartline shirt I gave you?

 

[turbobuick]

Commenting on the 47-88 vs t4 88 on a GN1 headed car. We have done head to head testing on 2 different cars swapping back and forth between these two turbos. The 47-88 spools a little quicker BUT no substantial gains in ET or MPH. The 47-88 shows a bit more peak HP but the t4 88 is stronger through the middle so it is a wash. On Jeffs TSO car,the best he went with the t4 88 was 8.69 at 159 in Cecil with good air. In BG 2 years ago when we installed the 47-88 he went 8.78 at 157, pretty much the same. Last year we swapped out a t4 88 with a 47-88 on a S2 headed car and while it spooled faster it, put down nearly identical HP numbers on our dyno. We have also used the 47-88 on a 331" Ford NMRA drag radial car and it REALLY shined over the T4 88.
We have done some recent testing on the 42-76 vs the t4 88 on a Buick for NOPI (foot break) events and there is VERY little difference in peak HP but the 42-76 spools way faster. For the weight break you get in TSO with the
42-76 it is the ULTIMATE turbo for a GN1 headed car.

Bill,
Good info Thanks! Unfortunatley, this thread has gone south.

That is kinda what I figured but it is interesting the 47/88 did so much better on the 331 Ford. I suspect the S2 heads will benefit from the turbine side of the 47/88 much more than the GN1 head. I still think a 47/88 S2 head TSO car at 3500# is capable of 165 mph.

 

[top gun]

I have looked at everything, Sully. I have NEVER said or even implied anything negative towards you. In fact, when you needed things from me at the first two races, I helped. In return, you get behind the keyboard and try and discredit me along with many other inuendo's. Then you wonder why I ignore you at the next race.

BTW: Was the picture on the internet of the guy checking the oil and polishing his rims , using the Hartline shirt I gave you?

Great point Cal, this is yet another example of Sully being a two faced a$$hole.

 

[EightSecV6]

Bill,
I still think a 47/88 S2 head TSO car at 3500# is capable of 165 mph.

I would surely like to see it but I think it may be a tall order especially with the weight penalty for using it. I know BG has different rules but if the stock block weight break is applied combined with the weight break for a 42-76 at other races, you may see an interesting combo next year :biggrin:

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Another thankful Hartline customer here.....I'm glad I get to test things before most vendors even hear about them. Most of the times they work. Unfortunately for Ted something went wrong.

 

[Otto J]

Another thankful Hartline customer here.....I'm glad I get to test things before most vendors even hear about them. Most of the times they work. Unfortunately for Ted something went wrong.

It is nice to get those special flashs huh Dusty

 

[Dusty Bradford]

It is nice to get those special flashs huh Dusty

:wink: :biggrin:

 

[V6 Beast]

And most of the times it benefits their customers. Last weekend alone, 6 customers ran personal bests. You should be grateful people test new things. Otherwise you might not have changed intercoolers and swapped in a distributor. What's next, a better turbo, or are you still sorting out that convertor?

As long as the people know they are test subjects then testing new technology is great. It what has brought these cars to where they are now. NO doubt about it. When I talked to Ted right after the event he seemed to have no idea that he was being used as a test subject. I guess things have changed for him now. These 6 new bests last weekend are with a another new flash not released yet?

Because most vendors, don't work as closely with FAST as I do. As a result, they only get flash updates that I have already tested, if they even update at all.

That is great. There is no denying that you work closely with FAST. Which can be a very good thing. There are also certain risks associated with it as well.

I have looked at everything, Sully. I have NEVER said or even implied anything negative towards you. In fact, when you needed things from me at the first two races, I helped. In return, you get behind the keyboard and try and discredit me along with many other inuendo's. Then you wonder why I ignore you at the next race.

Cal that is BS and you know it. Between Indy and Salem I made exactly 1 post that was even remotely associated with you. In one thread, I said to Travis "Why do you keep dragging Cal into this? If you want to make this about Cal we can as I have heard some ****per stories lately". Actually I was trying to keep you out of the thread but Travis kept dragging you back in. You need a link to review? After that your goons go on the attack, then you stop talking to me and act like a little girl at Salem. On top of it, you don't think the stuff you say at the track gets out?

The good news I could care less what that dumbass Dave thinks so his posts are just a waste of time.

BTW: Was the picture on the internet of the guy checking the oil and polishing his rims , using the Hartline shirt I gave you?

If you asking if it was me in both of those pictures. I can honestly say No.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Unfortunately for Ted something went wrong.

Yep, but on a positive note, we are re-building for next year and it will be a max effort DLS motor and like in the past, when I go back out I go faster and that's the plan for next year.


Jack: About the new I/C's, give me a call at the shop this week.


GN280CI. Any questions you have feel free to PM me.

 

[turbobuick]

I would surely like to see it but I think it may be a tall order especially with the weight penalty for using it. I know BG has different rules but if the stock block weight break is applied combined with the weight break for a 42-76 at other races, you may see an interesting combo next year :biggrin:

I would like to see that combo. It'll be interesting to see if the HG can hold it. I believe Rich Kibler has been 172mph with a 47/88 on a S2 head car at 3100. That same HP (~1230) at 3500# is 165 mph according to TCI's calculator. All speculation of cousre but Richie has been pretty damn fast with that combo.