Good or junk -- Timing Covers which one to use????

[TURBOPOWERED68]

long story short version -- my Weber timing cover took out my billet cam gear and cam sensor gear.
Now looking to go with a used OE timing cover, i have 4 to choose from but they all have scratches on the rounded part of the pump sides, what do you guys think??

 

[2QUIK6]

I have been reading up on covers as I need one for my rebuilt and I did wonder across a post that someone had purchased a weber and the pump shaft couldn't hardly be turned by hand. He called and they said they had someone absent so someone else had been building them and they sent him a new one...wonder if this is what happened to yours, do you recall trying to turn the pump shaft before installing and how tight it was? I'll see if I can locate the post... I ended up purchasing a TA cover that they machine..haven't used it yet but my builder also recommended it, fully assembled from them with pump.

 

[2QUIK6]

Well, didn't have to look far, someone brought it back up in the last few weeks as its just below yours by a few.....its post #19 in here http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/ta-performance-or-weber-racing-front-cover.416424/

 

[Nick Micale]

[QUOTE="TURBOPOWERED68, post: 3615270, member: 19256"........ i have 4 to choose from but they all have scratches on the rounded part of the pump sides, what do you guys think??[/QUOTE]

Since you asked for an opinion, mine is to get a new cover and gears.

If you value your engine, be sure the most important part which is the life-line for the internal parts should not be questionable like all those covers, send them to be recycled.

They would not ever go on any engine that we would build.

Spend the $200 to protect your engine which is probably worth 30-40 times that of a new timing cover?

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

I spent a lot trying to protect my engine and ended up with a new cover from Weber that does not properly align the cam sensor to the cam gear. Did some research and came up with "OE are the only ones that line up correctly" so that brings me to this.

 

[fastblackracing]

When your engine was assembled, Do you remember checking for gear lash between the cam sensor gear and the drive gear on the camshaft? If the cam sensor was installed with the gears tight meaning no lash I can see the reason for failing especially with no provision for oiling.

This is just one of the small details required for running a billet roller cam, they are not just drop in and go pieces, the stack up on the nose parts often requires some adjusting to get everything happy.

If I have a front cover that has more than a few small grooves meaning maybe .005 deep I will get another cover to use. Minimize your end clearance on the gears and check the gear clearance to the cover, blend and radius all edges in the oil path inside the cover and as part of the engine mock up you have to verify the cam sensor gear clearance.

I also feel that there has to be some form of oiling for the gears...some use a small copper line inside the cover, some drill a hole in a pressure passage I relocated my turbo oil drain from the block to the timing cover so the drain oil lubes the gears ......Not sure what your covers look like in person so im not gonna comment on them.

 

[fastblackracing]

GM specs, side clearance between the pump gear and the housing: .003-.005, gear diameter: 1.664-1.666, Gear height: .872-.874, lash between the pump gears: .0015-.003, gear end clearance to filter plate with gasket: .002-.006, Now you really want to be on the low side of these specs And I personally would set mine up even tighter than the min specs if I can get it there.

There are no specs listed for the cam sensor gear lash but .005-008 would will work well. HTH

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

highway stars still has some OEM front covers. I do the EB porting on them and get 20psi at hot idle. I always will use a new cover on a new build.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Gear oiling was NOT done, but WILL be done this time around. I'll check the vendors and see what I find.

Not trying to argue or go against your guys advise. Simply asking why?? If One of the covers was on my engine before the rebuild 180k miles and over 20 psi hot idle with 10w40 oil. Why wouldn't it work now for this engine? I get it new is supposed to be better, I didn't exactly go cheap or no name brand the first time. Weber billet cam and weber timing cover with a brand new cam sensor. I tried to do it the "right way" or at least the way of the masses.

 

[turbobitt]

I have used aftermarket covers but also have extensively modified them. Obviously the least amount of work would be an OEM cover but they all need some detail work to some extent in my opinion. At this point its almost impossible to bolt on a part out of the box and have it work correctly.
AG.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Haven't used a billet cam for some yrs.. However, there was an issue w/ material compatibility, cam gear vs sensor gear.
If the pump cavity is damaged, that could be due to being too tite on the cover. It could also be from side loading, due to the sensor bore, and/or the cover to engine block dimension, being off. [Ho Chi Min covers}.
I just did the EB mod to a 60K cover. I did not set the cover end play to the min. 10w 30...Hot idle 40psi... Too high. Am going back to stock spring, next oil change.

Just sayin...

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Haven't used a billet cam for some yrs.. However, there was an issue w/ material compatibility, cam gear vs sensor gear.
If the pump cavity is damaged, that could be due to being too tite on the cover. It could also be from side loading, due to the sensor bore, and/or the cover to engine block dimension, being off. [Ho Chi Min covers}.
I just did the EB mod to a 60K cover. I did not set the cover end play to the min. 10w 30...Hot idle 40psi... Too high. Am going back to stock spring, next oil change.

Just sayin...

I think that i am going to at least try one, the best looking one, also going to do the EB mod a real good clean up.
besides low oil pressure what is a sign to switch out to a new one?

 

[Nick Micale]

I spent a lot trying to protect my engine and ended up with a new cover from Weber that does not properly align the cam sensor to the cam gear. Did some research and came up with "OE are the only ones that line up correctly" so that brings me to this.

Cam sensor alignment with an aftermarket timing cover has been an on-going issue for many years, so Weber had nothing to do with that issue.

Current OE covers are NOT the only ones that line up properly, as TA machines their timing covers in-house, and their tolerances are much tighter than the OEM original, and also better than the ones currently made for GM by outside vendors.

TA has also incorporated changes and upgraded their oil passages for less restricted oil flow.

Besides cam alignment depending on accurate machining, the other critical tolerance is the side-wall clearance in the gear pocket which is the critical dimension for developing oil pressure.

The factory original turbo timing cover is a very good piece, but the current GM cover is hit or miss in their quality, but better than the aftermarket units that are machined off-shore.

I have used and sold many TA timing covers for years now, and have yet to hear one case of anyone having an issue, and the feedback from owners is that they have better oil pressure after installing a TA timing cover,

 

[Mike Licht]

Your billet cam is off from the GM spec, I also assume (maybe not) that you have a bearing behind it which means someone had to machine it for that, There is also a spacer that had to made for the fuel pump eccentric. and some of the gears are way too hard. All this things change the placement of the gear. The ductile cams put it in the stock location. If you do not verify the gear location and the mesh with the cam sensor you will most likely have the same problem with ANY front cover. Even a different timing cover gasket thickness changes this relationship.

 

[bison]

I measured several covers one day. The best ones as it turns out were all from assembly line LC2 engines. The two new GM covers I measured were out of spec. Others were all over the place. Properly setting up these covers required a milling machine and a lot of patience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

I measured several covers one day. The best ones as it turns out were all from assembly line LC2 engines. The two new GM covers I measured were out of spec. Others were all over the place. Properly setting up these covers required a milling machine and a lot of patience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Two of the covers that I am considering are OE not OEM.

 

[WPP-Bill]

long story short version -- my Weber timing cover took out my billet cam gear and cam sensor gear.

I'm assuming that you possibly purchased an un-assembled GM front cover from us years ago because we never have sold ported/fully assembled new front covers with HV booster plates as seen in image 20151009_201455-jpg and rope seals as seen in image 20151009_201642-jpg. If this is not the case, please PM me an invoice number or other info so I can lookup the order. Even when we sold GM un-assembled front covers we included a FEL-PRO 15200 in the package, so the customer could install it himself, for the last five years. When we build a new GM front cover out of the box, that pre-installed rope seal is the first thing to go.

We don't use tall gears because of the problems associated with them. That's a topic often discussed so I won't get into too much detail of the cause with my opinion, but I will say the effects are easy to spot when we see ductile roller cams driven so far into the block that the block must be machined and a cam thrust wear plate must be used for repair. When this happens, the alignment of the cam gear also changes for the worse. I'm not saying that we have not, on very rare occasion, setup a front cover with tall gears. But we advise the customer of our opinion and if they insist we place a disclaimer on their invoice. If we are building the engine, we may decline the entire job if tall gears are requested because we feel that strongly against using them.

I'm not sure who's cam you are using, but I would inspect the cam, conversion assembly (especially the torrington bearing) and block closely to determine if there is any damage that needs to be addressed. We use a small oiling system mod for those running our billet cams that will direct additional oil onto the gears and reduce wear. If you are not using this, or another method to direct oil at the gears, I would address that now too.

There are various cam sensor gears available, and I did not see where you specified what material yours is. Some consider them a wear item, are inspected yearly and replaced when appropriate. What type of cam sensor gear are you running and how long has it been running for?

If you are using our billet cam and need any parts for it (torrington, oiling mod, etc.), new front seal (not rope), and/or a thin front cover gasket that will help you set camshaft endplay, just let me know.