Front timing cover seal

[tlap]

I have a stock '86 GN with only 43000 miles, and I am getting a bit of oil leaking from the front timing cover main seal area. I have already installed new rear main seal and oil pan gasket.
After reading all I can find on the subject, it sounds like there can either be an original rope seal or a neoprene seal, correct? Were there two different timing covers on these engines?
If its rope then there is some trimming of the aluminum to be done before the seal can be installed, right?
I got the Fel-Pro TCS 45930 gasket set. Which has a neoprene one piece seal (#95364). This seal does have a metal lip on the spring side, with a "national" name and PN of S-12623 on it.
Does this mean that this style seal needs to be installed from the back of the timing cover?
Is there any seal that can be installed without taking the cover off?
Thank you

 

[broke]

The replacement seal has to be installed from the back by removing the cover. After removing the rope seal and its retainer there will be stake marks that need to be removed before installing the new seal.

 

[earlbrown]

Yes. The timing cover has to come off to do the repair. On the upside the cover has to come off to replace the 27 year old timing gear.

When you dropped the pan did you not find any teeth in there or chunks of plastic?

 

[Buick Mark]

All Buick Turbo 6/V8 crank seals were the rope type

 

[tlap]

OK, I will bite the bullet and pull the cover.
Earl, I did not find any teeth, but there was, what looked like old, hard pieces of the EGR grommet.
I was thinking that it would be a good time to replace the timing chain and gears too. Would it be of any benefit to install a double roller? If so what brand?
Thanks again for the input.

 

[Paul Lohr]

TA Performance sells what I think is the best timing set. I think it may be part number 1522A? It is a stronger than stock timing set but still uses a tensioner. I think the tensioner should stay. I don't think the TA set is a double roller. Although, lots of people are running a double roller with no tensioner.

This may be the one from TA:
http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_V1522A

Make sure your front cover is decent. Oil pump drive gear turns smooth when engaged to the cam sensor, not too much wear on oil pump surfaces.

 

[earlbrown]

OK, I will bite the bullet and pull the cover.
Earl, I did not find any teeth, but there was, what looked like old, hard pieces of the EGR grommet.
I was thinking that it would be a good time to replace the timing chain and gears too. Would it be of any benefit to install a double roller? If so what brand?
Thanks again for the input.

Normally the PCV grommet parts lay on top on the intake valley pan. The stock timing chain is alum with nylon coated teeth. Normally the pan has chunks of burnt orange (color, not charred) plastic and sometimes actual alum teeth.

I HIGHLY recommend spending the money for a stock timing set. Yes, people like to say they're crap because they're plastic coated alum instead of steel...

That being said, they don't tear up the oil pump like a steel unit does when it fails, they don't leave afros on magnetic oil drain plugs, and they have an established track record of lasting 150,000 miles or 20 years. Whichever comes first. The also run quiet and they don't make noises the knock sensor confuses for knock.

 

[tlap]

earl, does the tensioner generally need to be replaced too?
Is there a site sponsor that would carry the stock set?

 

[Shawn N]

You will need to pick up another oil pan gasket too. Pan has to come off and be resealed or it will leak like crazy. Good point Earl on the stock gears.

 

[GNONYX]

You can get most of the parts from NAPA for a reasonable price


New tensioner – NAPA http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NTP95158_0191974675
$4.84

Updated cam button NAPA http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NTP95189_019197467
$15.14

Front cover gasket set – NAPA http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=tcs45930&Ntk=Keyword&Nty=1&N=599001+101987+50008+2
$9.99
You might not have to get another oil pan gasket if your is rubber made, just make sure it's clean on both ends

 

[earlbrown]

earl, does the tensioner generally need to be replaced too?
Is there a site sponsor that would carry the stock set?

The tentioner is so cheep there's no reason not to replace it. You will need to upgrade to the new style button with a bearing on the end. It's cheep too.

With only 40,000 on the clock you can probably save some money and reuse your bottom gear on the timing set. The only way to know for sure is to remove the timing cover and inspect it. That gear's been discontinued for quite a while now so I'm sure it's pricey. The good thing is that it's made of steel and gets plenty of oil during use.

 

[tlap]

You are right, its all relatively cheap and it makes sense to do it all while its apart.

 

[tlap]

OOps. double post

 

[tlap]

OK, I called TA today and they told me I needed a TAV1522B timing set (both gears and chain) and the TAV1394R dampener, so I ordered them. NAPA will have the cam button for me tomorrow (NPT95189).
These parts along with the FELPRO gasket set should do the job.
Thanks for all the input.