:) First post...

[UR50SLO]

I thought I'd start off the new topic with somthing that's been on my mind for some time.
NHRA/IHRA states you need a roll bar at 11.49 (correct me if I'm wrong) It usto be 11.99 or faster.

With factory Z06's going low 11's at 124mph (10sec mph) and other factory cars being produced with similar performance. Should the factory be made to install a NHRA/IHRA approved Roll bar?

Why should people have to ruin their "stock" car (or our cars) *my real point here*with a bar so they can be legal at a track?
The other option once kicked out of a track is to go street racing. I thought the track was ment to be a legal place to go raceing with out the worry of killing someone on the streets?

I agree that rules are ment to keep people safe and race tracks out of trouble. With factory cars going faster than the stated "bar" rule somthing needs to change which could benifit us who like to make power with out cutting up our cars that we "drive".

Maby I'm the only one who does not want to put a roll bar in my Buick and not be able to throw the kid's in the back seat and go for a ice cream just because Track Rules demand it.

What are your thoughts?

I hope I'm not out of topic here.



Thanks for another good area for people to discuss new topics.

Scott~

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

I'm sure it will be lowered again sometime soon.... i think that was the main reason it was lowered to 11.49 was for that exact reason [ so many fast cars coming straight out of the factory] He!! now its not that hard to get a NEON SRT4 into the 11's. Its a TOTALLY different ball game from when i got my car [8years ago] - At my local track their are neons, lightnings, vettes, camaros, firebirds, muskrats, wrxs, supras, etc.... all with sub 11 slips or potential.

 

[turbodave231]

I see your point.

Manufacturers will never put that kind of protection in from the factory because very few customers will want to pay the price or want the inconvenience of Roll bars/cages......and whose rules do they meet ?

IHRA, NHRA, SCCA, NASCAR, etc.??? These hot cars can be used in so many different forms of racing how can a manufacturer meet every sanctioning body's rules?

I ended up selling a very nice 86 T with less than 30K on the Odo because I couldn't bring myself to cut it up to install a roll bar. I saved an 85 GN from the crusher and turned it into my racecar.

 

[oldtimer]

I think we have to be very careful with this discussion of why the manufacturers do have to do this or that. There have been many people killed in maufacturers performance cars by careless and immature owners/drivers.

Our own and other racer's safety is the real issue here, not who's doing or who's not doing something. Street racing is irresponsible at best, and other innocent bystander's lives are in peril when thoughtless, drinking drivers decide to show how much power they have or don't have by doing so ! period !

Drag racing gets a bad rap almost every time someone gets hurt street racing. Remember, Drag Racing IS NOT Street Racing.

We should be doing everything in our power to promote safety in our sport. If you don't want to cut up a GN or a T Type for safety reasons, the answer is very simple .... get a regular Regal and build it up to race. To take the risk of getting mamed, crippled or killed because we don't want to put a safety item on our cars is stupidity at it's best.

Yup, I'm a little oversensative on this topic, because I've seen a couple of my drag racing colleages killed because they tried to shortcut this one most important topic ... SAFETY !

Well, I'll get off my soapbox now. It'll be interesting to see the varying opinions on this new forum. It's bound to be controversial.

By the way, I did cut up my GN for safety.

George

 

[NJVetteGuy]

I used the same arguments when the rule was 11.99 since my stock internals, bolt-on automatic C5 was going 11.63@115.1. I only argued since IHRA was 11.49 at the time. With both major sanctioning bodies in agreement now, I believe 11.49 to be a good cutoff point. If you want to run quicker than that, put a bar in. I bought my current GN specifically because it was an ex race car that was already legal to 10.00. If you don't want to put a bar in, turn the boost down at the track. If you are not an avid racer, turn the car up at a track rental day when safety rules are generally pretty lax and run the number. I run brackets weekly, and if my sweet spot for the car on a given weekend is deep in the 11s, the rollbar gives me the flexibility to dial wherever I want without worrying about satisfying safety requirements. Remember, the rules are there for the safety of the racers. If you don't want to follow the rules, take your chances on the street.

 

[oldtimer]

I used the same arguments when the rule was 11.99 since my stock internals, bolt-on automatic C5 was going 11.63@115.1. I only argued since IHRA was 11.49 at the time. With both major sanctioning bodies in agreement now, I believe 11.49 to be a good cutoff point. If you want to run quicker than that, put a bar in. I bought my current GN specifically because it was an ex race car that was already legal to 10.00. If you don't want to put a bar in, turn the boost down at the track. If you are not an avid racer, turn the car up at a track rental day when safety rules are generally pretty lax and run the number. I run brackets weekly, and if my sweet spot for the car on a given weekend is deep in the 11s, the rollbar gives me the flexibility to dial wherever I want without worrying about satisfying safety requirements. Remember, the rules are there for the safety of the racers. If you don't want to follow the rules, take your chances on the street.

taking chances on the street is not only putting your own safety in peril, but also some innocent bystanders. Racing on the street is not only dangerous, but gives drag racing a bad name. Enough bad press will eventually put an end to drag racing ..... but there's always a few who are irresponsible and care less !!

If we want to race, do it right and by the rules. They're there for our own good !!

George

 

[turbodave231]

We should be doing everything in our power to promote safety in our sport. If you don't want to cut up a GN or a T Type for safety reasons, the answer is very simple .... get a regular Regal and build it up to race. To take the risk of getting mamed, crippled or killed because we don't want to put a safety item on our cars is stupidity at it's best.

George,

I couldn't agree more. We should be advocates for safety. I nearly lost a good friend to a freak accident at a Buick race in Baltimore year before last. That really made me think about my own safety and made me more aware of the real risks involved.

I asked to start this forum as a constructive way to promote the awareness of the risks involved and get people to step up and equip themselves to run fast and safe.

EVERY rule in either NHRA or IHRA rulebook was written after somebody crashed. These rules are structured so that racers avoid mistakes/omissions made by others.

Dave

 

[SilverSleeper]

I think the rulebook is there for safety, of course. But, its an overgeneralization of how safe one car is compared with another. Thats where the problem lies. A 65 Skylark running an 11.49 is not even remotely as safe as a new ZO6 running the same number. Yes, the ET was lowered by .50, which is a start. But, you understand these rules and time have been in place for so long, technology has advanced way beyond this. The average "fast" cars of yesteryear were running high 13's..maybe. Now, 12's and 11's are the norm.
Do I have any ideas on how to fix the problem? No. Not unless you start taking safety on a make and model or car by car basis, which is impossible. Unless, you start excepting certain cars. For instance, making exceptions to the existing rules based upon the safety of the car as it rolled of the assembly line. For instance, the rule exists at 11.49, but except the vette to a 10.99, the viper to a 10.99, etc, but hold the ET true for other makes.

Just an example of what I mean in an extreme case....
I went to my local 8th mile a while back. And the rules there are just rediculous. With my Buick mothballed for now, I took my PT for the heck of it. Its a stock NA, with a 5 speed, that maaaaybe will turn a 17sec 1/4 time. I was just there for fun. The track makes anyone, regardless of ET wear a helmet for test N tune nights. Cmon, I drove faster on the highway to get to the track than the speeds I trapped at. Thats nothing though. Saturday, when the actual races are on, everyone...and I mean, everyone must wear a fire jacket and a helmet. Cmon. You already sign a waiver to even race there. Im not saying all tracks are that strict, even going beyond the rulebook, but it kind of magnifies the point Im trying to make.

 

[oldtimer]

I think the rulebook is there for safety, of course. But, its an overgeneralization of how safe one car is compared with another. Thats where the problem lies. A 65 Skylark running an 11.49 is not even remotely as safe as a new ZO6 running the same number. Yes, the ET was lowered by .50, which is a start. But, you understand these rules and time have been in place for so long, technology has advanced way beyond this. The average "fast" cars of yesteryear were running high 13's..maybe. Now, 12's and 11's are the norm.
Do I have any ideas on how to fix the problem? No. Not unless you start taking safety on a make and model or car by car basis, which is impossible. Unless, you start excepting certain cars. For instance, making exceptions to the existing rules based upon the safety of the car as it rolled of the assembly line. For instance, the rule exists at 11.49, but except the vette to a 10.99, the viper to a 10.99, etc, but hold the ET true for other makes.

Just an example of what I mean in an extreme case....
I went to my local 8th mile a while back. And the rules there are just rediculous. With my Buick mothballed for now, I took my PT for the heck of it. Its a stock NA, with a 5 speed, that maaaaybe will turn a 17sec 1/4 time. I was just there for fun. The track makes anyone, regardless of ET wear a helmet for test N tune nights. Cmon, I drove faster on the highway to get to the track than the speeds I trapped at. Thats nothing though. Saturday, when the actual races are on, everyone...and I mean, everyone must wear a fire jacket and a helmet. Cmon. You already sign a waiver to even race there. Im not saying all tracks are that strict, even going beyond the rulebook, but it kind of magnifies the point Im trying to make.

Jason,

Keep one thing in mind, when you're dead, you're dead ... When you're dis-figured, you're dis-figured ... When you're a parapalegic, you're a parapalegic,
no matter what car the mishap or accident occurred in.

Back many years ago, I was T boned by a 75 car freight train doing 40 miles per hour in my 1950 Ford. Fortunetly, at the time, I wasn't wearing
seat belts. The impact opened the passenger side door and lifted me out of the car on the entire front seat, throwing me clear of the accident. The car was taken down the track for about 300 yards, a twisted, mangled wreck.

For years, after that incident, I argued about the fact that I would have been killed if I had have been wearing seat belts, so I lobby'd my point vigouressly against mandatory wearing of seat belts.

I have since seen the statistics that wearing seatbelts saves lives. Many more lives are saved by wearing seatbelts than by not wearing them. I wear seatbelts now, not because they are mandatory, but because I have matured.

On another note, I had a nephew that was not wearing seatbelts and was killed in a street race when he rolled the car and was thrown out through the sun roof. The car rolled over him.

So you see, there are arguments that can be made on both sides of any safety item or rule.

Agreed, that modern technology has made cars much safer than my old 1950 Ford, but I'm sure that I would have been killed in a ZO6 given the same circumstances, wearing the safety equipment ( seatbelts )

Moral: Don't argue about the rules. They may just save your life. A fire will burn you up just as bad in a 17 second PT Cruiser, as it will in a 5 second Funny Car.

George

 

[SilverSleeper]

Oh, I agree that the rules are there to save lives. No argument there. But at what lengths are the rules going too far and ruining your enjoyment of the sport and of your car?
This is why I made reference to my time at the track. I had a miserable time. With the helmet I couldnt hear the motor, so with a 5 speed my times were horrible. If I have to suit up in a fire jacket and helmet just to take my 17 second PT down the 1/8th mile for fun, when you make the same request of a 12 second car? Granted, neither a fire suit nor helmet will change my car in anyway. But what would you say if I told you they required me to install a roll cage "just in case" or a full fire extinguishing system "just in case", a fuel cell, or a 5 point harness "just in case" ? Dont you think that might be perceived as extreme at that level?

Its defining the lines that divide "street car" from "track car". What is streetable? You take a brand new ZO6, and want to run it at the track, it goes from being "streetable" to a "track only" car because some guy once upon a time running 11's on 4 wheel drums couldnt stop in time from hitting the wall. Why dont the ZO6's come from the factory with a roll bar, 5 point harness, racing seats, lexan windows, window net and a parachute? They "might" save the drivers life someday. Why dont we all drive around in fire retardant suits and helmets with neck straps? They may save our life one day. But at the expense of what? Enjoying our ride...thats what we bought it for in the first place, right?

 

[oldtimer]

Life is just a series of choices

You can choose to comply with the existing track rules.

You can choose to attend another track.

You can choose to not race your car.

You can choose to build a race car with all of the required safety equipment.

You can choose not to do anything.

But be careful of rationalization. :wink:

Good luck!

George