Dump the gear and go timing chain?
- Thread starter 2GNS4ME
- Start date
I got the impression that the minimum run for it to be worth it to Milodon to produce more 13805 gear drive sets would be 50 units.
They just don't want to produce 50 units and have it take 50 years to unload the parts.
I for one would buy one set to have a spare gear drive on the shelf.
They just don't want to produce 50 units and have it take 50 years to unload the parts.
I for one would buy one set to have a spare gear drive on the shelf.
Last time I checked (last month) all the replacement parts are available, except for the upper gear.
This guy on ebay might have one
Boxes and Boxes of other Buick Stage 2 parts.
Call for more info 918-440-6467
Squid4life
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2004
Mike Booher usually has the Milodon gear drives, new used, etc.
Now you guys are making me regret getting rid of the ones I had... Just in case.
Now you guys are making me regret getting rid of the ones I had... Just in case.
Well maybe you better read some other opinions 1st
http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6221&highlight=gear+drive
Ken told me that the cam gear is the same gear they use in a SBC gear drive kit (12000). So, the upper gear should not be a problem at all.
J-B Racing
Forced Induction
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
You find something....let me know..
Joe
Joe
I've done a lot of searching and JayC is the only person I've read about having issues with the gear drive.
On the other hand there are lots of guys that use them with no complaints.
This is from a thread back in 2004. Tim Cole works for Comp Cams and runs or used to run Comp Eliminator with a Buick V6.
Recently there was a bunch of buick V6 for sale on racing junk by a comp eliminator racer in north east Ohio. He apparently used gear drives on his stuff. I saved a picture. Notice this is the three bolt "non HD" version.
When I talked to Mike Booher about buying a gear drive a while back he said he was using the three bolt (non HD) version of the gear drive on Jim Rock's twin turbo car. If the turbo motor is setup anything like Mike Boohers blown motor it probably has pretty healthy spring pressures.
For every bad story you find on the internet there are hundreds of good stories that never get told. Take everything you read with a grain of salt.
If you want to do the same research on timing chains, I'm certain you'll find many more stories of broken chains. I'm pretty sure there are a couple in this thread alone.
I'm sure the 13800 set is workable. I don't know what the failures with that style were to force Milodon to change the design. I would guess people weren't properly fastening the idler hardware and they were coming loose during operation. The 13805 setup is much simpler and hard to screw up when you only have one large bolt to Loctite and tighten correctly. So easy, even a bull in a china cabinet can do it.
All I can pass on to you guys is what Ken at Milodon told me. After the design change of the idler, the system became much more durable. Complaints from customers, whatever the complaints were, virtually ended.
All I can pass on to you guys is what Ken at Milodon told me. After the design change of the idler, the system became much more durable. Complaints from customers, whatever the complaints were, virtually ended.
If I could find one I would probably pick it up. But I'm not going to let it delay assembling my motor when the time comes.
How does the stud attach to the mounting plate? Is it a bolt that threads in from the backside, or a stud that threads in from the front? I might be able to buy the idler and stud from Milodon and modify my backplate.
How does the stud attach to the mounting plate? Is it a bolt that threads in from the backside, or a stud that threads in from the front? I might be able to buy the idler and stud from Milodon and modify my backplate.
I think there are plenty of contacts to try that have already been posted. If you can't find something, then you didn't try very hard. I'm going to be doing a little shopping myself today.You find something....let me know..
Joe
The 13805 mounting plate has a simple large threaded hole in it where the idler mounts. The idler shaft is a double shouldered bolt. The first shoulder is at the end of the threads to act as a stop and tighten against the plate. The second shoulder is at the head of the fastener to keep the idler from sliding off the end of it.
A handy welder/machinist should very easily be able to modify the mounting plate to accept the newer design idler gear retaining bolt. Just make sure the mounting surface ends up being square so that the idler gear properly aligns to the other gears.
I can't remember for sure, but I think there is also a spacer washer that slips onto the idler shaft before the idler assembly gets threaded to the mounting plate to space the idler gear off the mounting plate. Maybe the idler shaft isn't double shouldered. The spacer washer would make that first shoulder on the bolt unnecessary.
I have two gear drives and a few parts. but i have a chain on my engine now and it has
400lbs on the seat 800lbs open, i have only run this engine in my garage.boosted to 10 lb
5ooo rpm. in the past i have run 300 lbs seat pressure with no chain problems,
gear problems? well a guy i know in flordia broke two last year,
anything can break, old nascar engines only run around 250 seat pressure.
usac engines about same, and i have boxes of their springs,
i have sold a few gear drives from 50.00 to 100.00.
maybe ill keep mine for a while anyway,
good luck oc,,
400lbs on the seat 800lbs open, i have only run this engine in my garage.boosted to 10 lb
5ooo rpm. in the past i have run 300 lbs seat pressure with no chain problems,
gear problems? well a guy i know in flordia broke two last year,
anything can break, old nascar engines only run around 250 seat pressure.
usac engines about same, and i have boxes of their springs,
i have sold a few gear drives from 50.00 to 100.00.
maybe ill keep mine for a while anyway,
good luck oc,,
Something I picked up during the little bit of research I've been doing on the internet. Proper gear clearance is crucial to the life of the gearset. .005-.008" backlash at each gear pairing. If the idler gear clearance is too tight, premature failure is guaranteed. As was already discussed, the idler gear has load on it that would tend to cause it to be sucked into the other two gears, closing clearances. A loose mounting plate, or a plate that loosens during operation would allow the idler gear to move into the other two gears, pretty much guaranteeing a problem. That is the main reason I was so careful to modify the mounting plate holes so that the bolts would cause a shouldered type of fit. If the plate did happen to shift somehow, the fit of the bolts would prevent the mounting plate from shifting and the idler being sucked into the other gears, closing clearances to a dangerous level.
Not to mention, I can remove and replace the gear drive mounting plate without having to go through a backlash adjustment each time. The fit of the mounting bolts align the plate for me. You really only need two of the mounting bolts precisely positioned to give you this feature. Preferably, the position of the two chosen bolts to affect this feature should be widely spaced from each other.
Not to mention, I can remove and replace the gear drive mounting plate without having to go through a backlash adjustment each time. The fit of the mounting bolts align the plate for me. You really only need two of the mounting bolts precisely positioned to give you this feature. Preferably, the position of the two chosen bolts to affect this feature should be widely spaced from each other.
It's not that difficult. Once everything is mounted to the block, push the upper end of the plate to the right, moving the idler into the other gears, until one of the upper bolts stops the movement of the mounting plate. That one upper bolt is going to be your first 'fitted' bolt. That one is done. No modification needed there.
Keeping the upper section of the plate shifted to the right, up against that one (or both if you're lucky) upper bolt, swing the lower section of the plate (crankshaft end) to the left to set your gear backlashes. Once you have the backlashes set with the upper section of the mounting plate still pushed to the right and stopped against the upper bolt(s), you want to position the mounting plate bolt and hole that is close to the idler gear in such a manner that the hole in the plate will stop against the bolt there and keep the plate from moving to the right, thus stopping the idler from shifting any closer to the other gears. Once that bolt and hole are properly arranged, you can do the same to the last bottom mounting bolt and hole for added insurance as a backup.
Fitting that one bolt and hole near the idler gear may be a trial and error deal. I had to weld up the hole and move it a few times until I was happy with the fit, while giving me the backlashes I was shooting for, but once it's done, IT'S DONE. The assembly can be removed and replaced without a second thought to the backlashes. A person could even use a shouldered bolt at that position to really make it trick. I didn't do that. I just made sure the bolt hole was very tight fitting to the bolt. No movement allowed.
Keeping the upper section of the plate shifted to the right, up against that one (or both if you're lucky) upper bolt, swing the lower section of the plate (crankshaft end) to the left to set your gear backlashes. Once you have the backlashes set with the upper section of the mounting plate still pushed to the right and stopped against the upper bolt(s), you want to position the mounting plate bolt and hole that is close to the idler gear in such a manner that the hole in the plate will stop against the bolt there and keep the plate from moving to the right, thus stopping the idler from shifting any closer to the other gears. Once that bolt and hole are properly arranged, you can do the same to the last bottom mounting bolt and hole for added insurance as a backup.
Fitting that one bolt and hole near the idler gear may be a trial and error deal. I had to weld up the hole and move it a few times until I was happy with the fit, while giving me the backlashes I was shooting for, but once it's done, IT'S DONE. The assembly can be removed and replaced without a second thought to the backlashes. A person could even use a shouldered bolt at that position to really make it trick. I didn't do that. I just made sure the bolt hole was very tight fitting to the bolt. No movement allowed.
