Does it make sense to convert or keep stock?

[turbonut85]

="Kaine Beedenbender, post: 3314217, member: 43466"]I wanted to make the point that although i would love to tinker and get my car perfect and i appreciate the help, there are allot of people i have seen on here basically saying "i figured it out, you figure it out". That isn't what i a would hope to see. I may be a newbie on this forums but i am a veteran on the BMW forums and always offer every bit of help i can. I am very knowledgeable with those cars, so i share.

Let me put my .02 in on this....here goes: I believe the reason people don't offer too much in this section is because most times when someone asks for help, we try to guide them, only to have them not listen, get frustrated, and then convert anyway thinking it will solve all their problems.....it gets old...just sayin. And then, on the other side of the coin, there are some whom have successfully modded their hot air cars that, for some reason, are so bitter about it, they refuse to help anyone with anything...unless they can make money doing it. That gets old as well. If I ever run a decent number with my hot air...(better than I have so far) ....and someone who is serious about modding their hot air (without an intercooler) asks me about my setup....there will be no secrets. My point being, if you are serious about keeping your car a true hot air, and you are willing to listen, and put forth the effort....the help is out there...

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Again thanks for all the responses. Keeping it hot air doesn't do anything for me. I even have had thoughts of scrapping the car and buying one that works. We will see. The issue is i bought it sight unseen on ebay because the pics looked good. Turns out allot of rust underneath and in poor condition. What was said was a bad turbo as the only issues, was actually a bad turbo, bad engine, bad exhaust, and on. Looking at the car everything is broken and doesn't work. Some thinking to do. Its not even a grand national, its a t-type. So its not even worth restoring financially.

 

[turbonut85]

Why is a t type not worth restoring...?

 

[boosted-para]

I have a t type that in ugly shape! It is worth it. In my case I might make a little or might loose a little if I decided to sell. These things require a commitment but will pay dividends of pleasure I hope, lol

 

[cwmccray]

Let me put my .02 in on this....here goes: I believe the reason people don't offer too much in this section is because most times when someone asks for help, we try to guide them, only to have them not listen, get frustrated, and then convert anyway thinking it will solve all their problems.....it gets old...just sayin. And then, on the other side of the coin, there are some whom have successfully modded their hot air cars that, for some reason, are so bitter about it, they refuse to help anyone with anything...unless they can make money doing it. That gets old as well. If I ever run a decent number with my hot air...(better than I have so far) ....and someone who is serious about modding their hot air (without an intercooler) asks me about my setup....there will be no secrets. My point being, if you are serious about keeping your car a true hot air, and you are willing to listen, and put forth the effort....the help is out there...

Keith I agree with what you are saying completely. I offered my .02 in such that a newbie could benefit from years and binders of research. I do agree that HA car in any condition is worth restoring. Some people go ballistic when you say intercooler. I go ballistic when you say put a 350/454 chevy in a HA. One thing I have learned about a HA is that they are all different. From the factory, you could have anywhere from 8.5-10 lbs boost. As a newbie first thing I would do it learn the basics: tune up (fresh oil, K&N, plugs/wires, no codes) and set TPS (.42-.46). I also would get a GOOD boost gauge. You would be surprise to see what boost you are actually running. HA cars are picky Heffers. The respond to the littlest things: cooler thermo, routing water lines and fuel pressure. I also would get a fuel gauge. Boost and fuel will be what you need to monitor your car. You are going to have to put in SOME work. No matter if you are keeping it stock, running alky, running E85, adding intercooler and running NOS. Some people are will help some are not going to be any help. If you put in the time to learn your car, you can get to where you want to be. I enjoyed owning Vettes and Camaros when they found out I have 85 T in 1991. What they did not know is I knew my car and I was running 12.70-80 on 90hp NOS with Goodyear R1 radials (Soft Compound tire BEFORE drag radials). I had fun, but with time cars get faster 11 sec plus and I KNEW my limit with NOS. My end point is this, only you can take pride in knowing you built your car and you know what numbers it can run. With time and research, you can make you HA what you want. You have to have THICK skin. For me I have used this as motivation. So go out and have FUN... Trust me you are going to have headaches either way... I could have sold my car 6 times.... BUT I did not. I DID get rid of the "OLD BALL and CHAIN". She even tried to sell my T Type while I was out of town.

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Great responses, thanks. The reason i said not worth restoring is because i think its honest. You look on ebay and the best example T's are worth half of what a hot air real GN goes for. I realize i am not going for resale but i use it as a gauge. It is no less expensive to restore a T than a GN. My real concern is not the mechanicals, its the bodywork. It needs a frame off and new full floor pan, interior, frame repair and powder-coat, etc. I am one for doing things perfectly so this mean big dollars. I simply have to decide will restoring it perfect fulfill the dream or owning a GN or T for me. I am not convinced. Immediately the engine is shot and trans needs some love. Already we are looking at 4-5k just to get it running. An easily 30k in body work and the rest to properly restore it. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

[boosted-para]

My approach to such an extreme rebuild would be to find a NA car in decent shape and begin the switch. There was a NA car near me in very good shape, it went to the scrap yard for 400. Makes no sense to me but he did. I found it a day late or I could have gotten a much needed header panel!

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[esinger]

I have to be honest, I‘d thought about converting to an intercooled setup in the distant past. What kept me from doing it was that there was plenty I could do with the hot air setup that would give me performance increases. Once I got to the point that my car was running better than most IC cars, there really wasn’t any reason to convert. It’s also kind of cool to see the reactions when parked with the hood up with 10 other Turbo Regals and your engine bay is different.

Intercooled or not, you’d best love your Turbo Regal because it takes a lot to keep these cars going nowadays. It seems every time I fix something, another thing goes wrong. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised owning a 28 year old car with 150,000 miles on it.

 

[Jerryl]

Kaine, I personally do not disagree based on your description of your goal, and assessment of the body work required. Sounds like you had an expensive education, and, have made up your mind. No encouragement will change how you feel. Time to sell and move on. Good luck.

 

[turbonut85]

Great responses, thanks. The reason i said not worth restoring is because i think its honest. You look on ebay and the best example T's are worth half of what a hot air real GN goes for. I realize i am not going for resale but i use it as a gauge. It is no less expensive to restore a T than a GN. My real concern is not the mechanicals, its the bodywork. It needs a frame off and new full floor pan, interior, frame repair and powder-coat, etc. I am one for doing things perfectly so this mean big dollars. I simply have to decide will restoring it perfect fulfill the dream or owning a GN or T for me. I am not convinced. Immediately the engine is shot and trans needs some love. Already we are looking at 4-5k just to get it running. An easily 30k in body work and the rest to properly restore it. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

And if you look on ebay....you can buy a GN for $35,000.....doesn't make them worth it. However, if it truly is as rusty as you say...then I wouldn't disagree....ANY of them (TR's) are worth saving IMHO...T type or GN.....

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Well reading the comments and opinions i think for now i am going to keep it as is and take a stab at rebuilding the engine myself. I will get the necessary machine work done and buy a rebuild kit. Some people say it ultra secret magic and others say they have done it and its no different than a regular engine. Then i will drive it and fix little things. I bought a sand blasting cabinet and my neighbor has a good powder coating setup in his basement with an oven. So i can save a bit there. At least make it look nice above the door sills. Initially i was going to go for the IC setup, but i think that money can buy allot of parts and get a similar outcome with some time and tuning.

Turbonut, what the heck is that avatar picture of?

 

[Wahoo]

I bought my car and its been hell ever since I owned it but there is something about it that makes me want to battle it back and make it submit! It will be what I want it to be! Although a junkyard 5.3 swap I'm not opposed to, some GN/TR people hate any engine swaps into these cars but I came from owning a 2000 Trans Am WS6 6spd car, and I know a lot of people into fbodys...with turbos, making 1,000hp. So I feel like you can't go wrong with an LS swap/ junkyard 5.3/6.0 but every time I start this 3.8 the rumble is just different, and I like that about it.

You gotta take it slow and have fun with it as a project vehicle, even when it fights you the entire time!

 

[boosted-para]

What's your location? Someone may come over an help, if close I would swing by

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Raleigh, NC. I wont be digging into it until next year. But when i do it will be heavily until it is running again. As i said the mechnicals aren't an issue. Might have to poke around for some used parts and good deals.

 

[boosted-para]

I got plenty of parts, hit me up with a list when you are ready

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[charlief1]

Some people say it ultra secret magic and others say they have done it and its no different than a regular engine.

There's no secret magic to them, but if you're not anal about putting it together it will blow up. The specs listed in the factory manuals are ok if building it stock and doing nothing to it, but if you want a performance build it's and entirely different thing.

Turbonut, what the heck is that avatar picture of?

That's Austinbrew after one of the TFW get togethers.

 

[Kaine Beedenbender]

Wonderful. Well if all this help is true then i will certainly entertain the idea of keeping it hot air and joining the rare club. I do like the modified setup the one gentleman had with the IC on a hot air. I know Brian at GBodyparts told me about this kit for around $1500. But for now its a simple rebuild and enjoy it as is. I will slowly redo the easy stuff myself and see what happens from there. If i can get it into the mid 14's for now i will be happy.

 

[milehighttype]

I converted mine years ago using an 86/87 intake,
modified upper plenum, 87 ECU, 86/87 TB, 86/87
IC in stock location, 86/87 electric fan, and later model
TA radiator. Works great, runs strong, runs cool.
Didn't cost much, either to do it.View attachment 206926

6 to go is there anywhere I can see more pictures of your set up? how the piping is run out of the turbo, etc? I want to go IC but I'm not sure which way I want to do it.