Condensation in my oil, is this normal? Update 05/21/2015 Found a problem

[Pronto]

Yes that is true. Just using those PACs as an example of a spring with the pressures higher than what was thought to be sufficient but were infact needed. Seems like spring pressure on roller cams is often under estimated.

 

[David Husek]

Seems like spring pressure on roller cams is often under estimated.

Yes this is true. Most forget to take the weight of the valve train and boost into account when picking springs

 

[bison]

I agree with Dave. There are plenty of springs available for those heads that will hit the seat pressures required and be around 500 open


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[Boost231]

Might get with Nick and talk about your concerns. He might be able to trade your springs out for the correct ones.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Thanks for the information.

I spoke with Nick about spring pressure and how my old heads were set up. We went through my cam card and other info so he could relay my combo to TA Performance which he did. The heads came from TA Perf to me. Why TA Performance set them up this way? I don't know? The heads look excellent and they certainly have some reasoning behind it.

With that said I planned to take my motor to an old friend of mine who built a couple motors for me in the past. I trust him and his skill level and experience is unquestionable. I reached out to him at this point because I have no where else to turn. He agreed to take on my motor and put his blessing on it. I just want to know when it goes back in there's no hang ups. The current motor he finished is blown with 3000 HP. He does mostly high end stuff these days.

I probably could have finished it myself but I just felt if Doug is willing to have a look at my motor I'd be an idiot not to take it to him.

I emailed Doug some basic information and he doesn't like the springs either. I haven't had a chance to talk to him in detail but I will when I drop the motor off next month.

Husek put together a great combo for me. I just need to do my part and get it together properly which will happen.

Dave I'll give you a call when I get a chance. Hope you had a great Christmas

Thanks to everyone else for your responses!

 

[Ttype6]

When I talked to the guy at TA,he couldn't understand how anyone could even get away with running over 350lbs open with a hydraulic lifter. He mentioned that they sell Morel lifters and I told him that Morel makes another version of their hydraulic lifter for higher spring pressures called short travel. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me to send him the springs,retainers and locators that I wanted on the SI heads they would be selling me and that they would install them at a height of my choosing. When I received the heads,I found the heights to be at least .050" taller than I had requested so I had to buy some standard locks to lower my installed heights down .050" from the heights that the +.050" locks they used produced. They did however give me 395 lbs open and,based on the conversation I had with the guy,they probably thought they were over doing it. My guess is that they were trying to save me from myself. I think this is exactly what they've done to you. They believe that spring pressures higher than 350 lbs can only be used with solid lifters.

 

[Jerryl]

Thanks Ttype6. That answers one of my questions. lol

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

When I talked to the guy at TA,he couldn't understand how anyone could even get away with running over 350lbs open with a hydraulic lifter. He mentioned that they sell Morel lifters and I told him that Morel makes another version of their hydraulic lifter for higher spring pressures called short travel. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me to send him the springs,retainers and locators that I wanted on the SI heads they would be selling me and that they would install them at a height of my choosing. When I received the heads,I found the heights to be at least .050" taller than I had requested so I had to buy some standard locks to lower my installed heights down .050" from the heights that the +.050" locks they used produced. They did however give me 395 lbs open and,based on the conversation I had with the guy,they probably thought they were over doing it. My guess is that they were trying to save me from myself. I think this is exactly what they've done to you. They believe that spring pressures higher than 350 lbs can only be used with solid lifters.

I will have to see if TA has a better spring to swap me out. If not I guess I'll have to buy new ones. I'm no expert of this subject but I knew Husek set the old combo up with more spring pressure for a reason. I didn't really stress over it too much when I ordered the heads because the guy that's going to look things over and install the heads etc has a lot of experience in this department. He has a flow bench and has built hundreds of high performance motors over the years. He already wants more spring pressure but like I said I haven't got the motor to him yet so he can wrap his head around what's going on. Husek has a couple springs in mind so between these two guys it will be set up right. Nick offered to swap springs from the get go so as long as TA has what I need no biggie.

I've been too busy lately to even think about the GN but after the first of the year I will get back after it.

 

[Ttype6]

I will have to see if TA has a better spring to swap me out. If not I guess I'll have to buy new ones. I'm no expert of this subject but I knew Husek set the old combo up with more spring pressure for a reason. I didn't really stress over it too much when I ordered the heads because the guy that's going to look things over and install the heads etc has a lot of experience in this department. He has a flow bench and has built hundreds of high performance motors over the years. He already wants more spring pressure but like I said I haven't got the motor to him yet so he can wrap his head around what's going on. Husek has a couple springs in mind so between these two guys it will be set up right. Nick offered to swap springs from the get go so as long as TA has what I need no biggie.

I've been too busy lately to even think about the GN but after the first of the year I will get back after it.

I would advise you to use a spring of Dave's choosing and install it at the height he recommends.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I will definitely consult with Husek when I get that far.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Well it's been a while so I figured I update this thread.

Took my motor to a friend of mine who has built a couple engines for me in the past. I wanted everything looked at before I put the motor back in. Basically make sure everything is healthy since I had a head gasket leaking.

Things aren't going well.

I'll explain things the best I can. I probably won't say things quite right but you'll get my drift.

My rods were side loading the piston bosses. Rod bearings are junk after 1200 miles and the side of the rod had some wear. Doug thinks the rods are reusable. I've been busy with work so I haven't had a chance to go look for myself so I'm just going off what he is telling me. Not sure why this is happening but Doug is very curious about it.

He took my block to have it touch probe measured. Just got a text from him so something's up???

He said my timing chain was real loose and wanted to know why we didn't go under on the chain. I said we went 10 under and it was tight at install. I used the good chain.

I'm getting the feeling I'm heading for a different block.

Mines been decked at least twice, bored at least twice and line honed at least twice. I'm thinking Doug is thinking the block is messed up?

There are a couple other things he found that aren't right.

I just asked him in a text if we are heading toward a new block and he text this back.

"I do not want to speculate prematurely, but something is crooked.
1. Rods slide downhill on down stroke and upward on up stroke.
2. Rod bearings showing edge wear that coincidences with visual slide of rod direction.
3. Big end of rods show cheek wear coinciding again to rod angle on sliding.
4. Timing chain prematurely loose."

Not going well!

 

[BEATAV8]

2 things come to mind when I read that. The Buick is an off center motor, it's normal to have uneven wear particularly on the rod bearings. And timing chains always stretch and loosen up.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I had copper showing on the rod bearings and movement was .060 on the piston bosses.

We'll know more on Friday when they are done measuring the block. Better safe than sorry I guess.

 

[Pronto]

I think I would start with a fresh block. Might be a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I'm not going to be surprised if it ends up that way. I'm in good hands so if it needs to be it will be. I'll know Friday.

 

[TurboDave]

On an off center engine like ours, if the rods were installed backward, the side load wear would be greatly exagurated(sic)!!!

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

That was Doug's first thought when he pulled the pan. They weren't.

I have some pics he sent, I'll try and get them posted up today.

 

[we4Mateo]

Crazy. Can't believe your luck brother. Best wishes man.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Thanks! I must really like this car because I have never in my life had so much trouble with anything. I've wasted more money on this car than I care to think about. I call it my Pork Chop now.

I'm still waiting to hear on the block.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Here are a few pics Doug sent.

Wear on the rods.



A look inside the motor, not sure what he's trying to show me?



He said the motor was detonating bad by the looks of the main cap. Funny thing is I never heard anything and the PL logs I have don't show it. I had some KR at tip in but nothing major? I guess it don't take much.