cometic gaskets

NC87GN

johnny boost
Joined
Aug 15, 2001
I thought I would post in hear since most of the stage 2 cars run a similiar type gasket. I have a mild street/strip motor (stock block with J/E, ported iron heads, roller cam, etc..) and I noticed oil leaking between the gasket and the block using cometic gaskets. It doesn't leave a trail of oil on the ground but its all over the starter and the sides of the block. I even put some GM flourescent die just to find the trail when I pull the heads off. Upon dissassembly it was definately leaking between the block and the gasket. Good compression numbers 165-170 so they were definately sealing the combustion chamber. I talked with a nascar engine builder and they recommend copper coat gasket sealer on both sides. I put them on dry like cometic stated. Anyone run into this problem??? TIA

Mike Banas
87GN
 
sounds to me like you may have a leak where the intake , head and block meet and its running around the gasket to the outside of the motor :confused:
 
leaks

Mike,

I have not disassembled mine yet but have the exact same situation as you have described. I suspected the intake and resealed it but still have the same leak. The intake was not the cause the first time around and is not this time either. I have been told by several people that this can not be - that the oil can not leak here without water leaking and loss of compression. It is leaking similar amounts on both sides. I am going to continue to drive it for a while before pulling the heads again.

Please post when you have reassembled and if you were able to stop the leak and how.

Thanks,

Phil
 
Originally posted by NC87GN
I thought I would post in hear since most of the stage 2 cars run a similiar type gasket. I have a mild street/strip motor (stock block with J/E, ported iron heads, roller cam, etc..) and I noticed oil leaking between the gasket and the block using cometic gaskets. It doesn't leave a trail of oil on the ground but its all over the starter and the sides of the block. I even put some GM flourescent die just to find the trail when I pull the heads off. Upon dissassembly it was definately leaking between the block and the gasket. Good compression numbers 165-170 so they were definately sealing the combustion chamber. I talked with a nascar engine builder and they recommend copper coat gasket sealer on both sides. I put them on dry like cometic stated. Anyone run into this problem??? TIA

Mike Banas
87GN


What was the part number to your head gaskets I just put my heads back on with cometic gaskets now you have me scared with oil leaks..

What is the thickness to your gaskets..
 
It can leak oil between the head and the gasket using cometic gaskets ~.060" thick. I even had the heads and block surfaced before assembly. I've run the stock gaskets on this same motor and never an oil leak. The Flourescent die even pin pointed the trail after I immediately removed the cometics. Now granted it was not a major leak but just enough to where it bothered me after ruling out all other possiblities such as intake corners, valve covers, breathers etc..

FWIW apply thin layer of copper coat on both sides and don't look back. This is not what cometic will recommend and its based off my personal experience along with another local who runs them on his GN, with this coating, and he NEVER had an issue.

Mike Banas
87GN
 
Are you talking about the copper spray can sealer or the silicone tube stuff???
 
Maybe Im wrong but the only oil going from the heads and block would be the oil returns correct??? have you check for the dowel pins bottoming out?
 
like chevy II said the only oil going by the head gaskets is where it drains back to the lifter valley ... there is no other oil to leak out the head gasket

the head gast does not come all the way up to the intake surface .. I still say your leak was where they meet up but not the intake but between the head and block just before the intake surface
 
I know you were leaking oil not water but I had the same problem with a water leak. They leaked before the motor was ever started. If they would leak water with no pressure in the system I could see them leaking oil the same way. FYI I went to the stacked steel shim gaskets.
 
Some interesting tidbits from the FP brochure on MSL gaskets:

1. Surface finishing is a critical step for MLS installation.
Traditional OE type MLS gaskets are constructed of layers of very hard stainless steel. They don’t easily conform to surface irregularities, so a very thin, fairly hard, rubber coating and an incredibly smooth surface finish are required to provide a satisfactory seal. When the castings are new and the finish is fresh, most MLS gaskets work quite well, but when the castings are old, or if they are refinished with less than a perfect finish, leaks usually result.
To seal under these adverse conditions, Fel-Pro® has developed PermaTorqueMLS.™ These new redesigned MLS gaskets have many unique features to seal better than any other gasket on the market today.

2. PermaTorqueMLS™ offers specialized coating designed for the repair environment.*
Select PermaTorqueMLS gaskets feature a special coating specifically formulated for the aftermarket’s repair environment. While most MLS gaskets require a surface smoother than 40 Ra (400 Rz), these Fel-Pro PermaTorqueMLS head gaskets will seal
a surface finish as rough as 60 Ra (600 Rz). Regardless of the brand of MLS gasket chosen, for the gasket to seal properly, the finish on the head and block must be flatter and smoother than what has traditionally been required for composite gaskets.

3. Consult your machine shop for specific surface finish capabilities.
Resurfacing a head or block doesn’t necessarily guarantee flatness or the proper surface finish. Newer resurfacing equipment has the capability to produce very smooth, flat surfaces, that are well within the required roughness specs. Older, or improperly maintained equipment often leaves a less than desirable surface finish, and will often result in leakage. It is therefore extremely important to measure the roughness of the
finish produced by a particular resurfacing machine to make sure it is within specifications.

Surface finish roughness is measured in microinches (millionths of an inch) either by the “Ra” method (average of all profile points), or “Rz” (height distance from peak to valley). The only way to accurately measure the finish is to use a special instrument called a surface profilometer. This hand-held electronic instrument (which can cost from $1200 to $4000 or more) drags a diamond-tipped stylus across the surface to measure and calculate its texture.

Two other surface finish conditions that need to be examined are waviness and flatness. Waviness describes the undulations or waves across the surface of the metal which are usually associated with milling machines. A waviness height of up to .0005" (500 µin) is OK, provided the distance from peak to peak is greater than .030." It’s also important that there be no scratches or dings in the surface that exceed .001" (1000 µin). The flatness of both the head and block should always be checked with a straightedge before installing a new head gasket. Place the straightedge on the face of the cylinder head or block, and then use a feeler gauge to check any gaps between the straightedge and the surface. If the clearance between the straightedge and surface exceeds the following maximum
limits, the head or block is not flat enough to hold a good seal and should be resurfaced. The chart on this page gives you the specs that should be followed.

I'm guessing that the surface roughness thing might come into play for some of these sealing issues. My engine guy ("Bad as L" here) actually surface ground the decks vurra purty and smooth :) lol

TurboTR
 
I have Cometics .060 thick I think. I have a real good oil leak only on the pass side head gasket. All I can think of is that it is the return drain leaking from the heads...Pulled the engine out and put it back together, same leak. Intake area/valve covers seal up dry as a bone. Think I'll have to pull the engine again (have head studs) and do the copper spray trick...
 
MAX PSI said:
I know you were leaking oil not water but I had the same problem with a water leak. They leaked before the motor was ever started. If they would leak water with no pressure in the system I could see them leaking oil the same way. FYI I went to the stacked steel shim gaskets.

We just had this same problem. It was due to the dowel pins in the block not fitting sqarely into the holes in the head. Height was ok, but they weren't going in straight and therefore the head didn't sit correctly on the commetics when torqued. As soon as we put coolant in it would leak out between the head & block.
 
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