when you jump the aldl while the car is running., should it blink fast or slow? mine is blinking slow. as i recall, this means that i have open loop. i have tried 2 different chips, same result. it shows no codes, but does flash the 12 code(ecm ok) what gives? am i just flaking?
car not going into closed loopi
- Thread starter NICKG
- Start date
not going into closed loop!
Hey Nick, what a coincidence! My car isn't either. This is a long story, so here it goes...
My car had a crappy idle, "tip in" stumble and severe detonation at WOT since I got it. I spent the entire weekend doing a spring cleaning hoping to find the problem. I should also say that I was told the car had the original chip in it. This is what I came up with...
I removed the breather from the turbo intake and installed VC breather. Flushed intercooler and thoroughly cleaned TB. Reset IAC, checked, adjusted and ultimately replaced TPS! ( Idle voltage OK but could not get WOT at 4.55 to 4.85) New TPS is on the money! I then replaced oil saturated boost solenoid, IAC motor, and coil pack. (Why not, it's all 15 years old). I also installed an adjustable fuel regulator set at 45 with vac line off.
Started the car and same crappy idle and tip in stumble! WTF... I hooked up the OTC 2000 again and everything looked good except the coolant temp reading of 79 to 80 degrees! The car still went into closed loop regardless of the cold temp reading! I replaced the CTS and still 79 to 80 reading on scan tool! I pulled the ECM and checked chip. IT WAS NOT ORIGINAL! Chip has a flourescent orange sticker on top and hand written # on bottom?????
I only have one other chip being a Thrasher 100! What the hell, I installed it. The tip in stumble and bad idle are cured
The CTS reading is still 79 to 80 but now with the Thrasher it will not go into closed loop! Can any body help me with diagnosing the CTS problem? I wiggled the wires at the plug and where they go into the harness to no avail. Is there supposed to be voltage present at the CTS? If so what should it be? Any common problem areas I should look at first? Somebody HELP..... PLEASE!!!
Nick, Do you have a stock or mild street chip I can borrow? The Thrasher 100 is still to much with pump gas. I still get knock at 3/4 throttle! I don't want to add a head gasket to the list!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions, Vic
Hey Nick, what a coincidence! My car isn't either. This is a long story, so here it goes...
My car had a crappy idle, "tip in" stumble and severe detonation at WOT since I got it. I spent the entire weekend doing a spring cleaning hoping to find the problem. I should also say that I was told the car had the original chip in it. This is what I came up with...
I removed the breather from the turbo intake and installed VC breather. Flushed intercooler and thoroughly cleaned TB. Reset IAC, checked, adjusted and ultimately replaced TPS! ( Idle voltage OK but could not get WOT at 4.55 to 4.85) New TPS is on the money! I then replaced oil saturated boost solenoid, IAC motor, and coil pack. (Why not, it's all 15 years old). I also installed an adjustable fuel regulator set at 45 with vac line off.
Started the car and same crappy idle and tip in stumble! WTF... I hooked up the OTC 2000 again and everything looked good except the coolant temp reading of 79 to 80 degrees! The car still went into closed loop regardless of the cold temp reading! I replaced the CTS and still 79 to 80 reading on scan tool! I pulled the ECM and checked chip. IT WAS NOT ORIGINAL! Chip has a flourescent orange sticker on top and hand written # on bottom?????
I only have one other chip being a Thrasher 100! What the hell, I installed it. The tip in stumble and bad idle are cured
The CTS reading is still 79 to 80 but now with the Thrasher it will not go into closed loop! Can any body help me with diagnosing the CTS problem? I wiggled the wires at the plug and where they go into the harness to no avail. Is there supposed to be voltage present at the CTS? If so what should it be? Any common problem areas I should look at first? Somebody HELP..... PLEASE!!!Nick, Do you have a stock or mild street chip I can borrow? The Thrasher 100 is still to much with pump gas. I still get knock at 3/4 throttle! I don't want to add a head gasket to the list!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions, Vic
i have a few actually
my car had a kb and i have a thrasher 93 , hypertech stge 1, and a stocker. i get home tomorrow at like 6:30. worse come to worse, i havre the ecm from my other car(i know it works) are you getting any codes? i am not, my tcc is sporatic at best. that is my thing, my corsica blinks the light fast when in closed loop, it seems the buick blinks slow in closed and fast in open? they both use the same o2 senser. i can say that the 93 thrasher rips
my car had a kb and i have a thrasher 93 , hypertech stge 1, and a stocker. i get home tomorrow at like 6:30. worse come to worse, i havre the ecm from my other car(i know it works) are you getting any codes? i am not, my tcc is sporatic at best. that is my thing, my corsica blinks the light fast when in closed loop, it seems the buick blinks slow in closed and fast in open? they both use the same o2 senser. i can say that the 93 thrasher rips
If you can spare one of those chips for a few days, I'd appreciate it!
I'm not getting any codes! The ECM just thinks the engine is cold and keeps it in open loop. Running very rich too! Another affect of the low CTS temp? I guess.
Wow, I learned more about these cars this weekend than I did during the 3 year ownership of my first GN in "87" LOL
I'm not getting any codes! The ECM just thinks the engine is cold and keeps it in open loop. Running very rich too! Another affect of the low CTS temp? I guess.
Wow, I learned more about these cars this weekend than I did during the 3 year ownership of my first GN in "87" LOL
ChrisCairns
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Perhaps the engine REALLY is cold. Have you checked to make sure there is a thermostat in it and it's not stuck open?
You could temporarily stick some cardboard in front of the radiator to see if the engine gets any hotter.
Chris
Steve Wood
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
Hmmm, I never heard of this technique. Never heard of blink speed having anything to do with loop status....normally one pulls codes with the engine not running. Guess I may have learned something new...
The Thrasher chip is open loop at idle....I don't recall if it ever shows closed on a scan tool or not.
You sure you changed the right sensor? Normally, it will show much colder than that if it is bad, or so I recall.
Chris, the engine is definitely up to temperature! I got an 80 degree reading on scan tool after 20 to 30 minutes idling! Electric fan kicked on after extended idling, Radiator extremely hot to the touch! Thermostat was replaced as well. I had the same reading with the old T-stat. Both are 160 degree units. I think it was hotter than 80 deg. outside today! LOL
Steve, I didn't know that the Thrasher chips idle in open loop! I am not getting closed loop on road test either!
I noticed 3 coolant temp probes on the manifold. I replaced the one on the drivers side of the T-stat housing. ( 2 wires, yellow and black I think) I know one is idiot light sender and other fan switch? These only have 1 wire.
Even if the Trasher runs in open loop, shouldn't I get actual temp readings on the OTC? Am I correct in assuming that this would cause a rich condition? Scan tool shows rich condition and does not cycle like it did with the other chip. Both chips showed the same CT of 80 Deg.
Thanks for the help and keep em comming. This is new to me and I need all the help I can get!
Vic
blackbuick87
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
The orange sticker'd chip sounds like a Red Armstrong chip. I would use that chip to find your problem. If you are sure you have changed the right sensor check the wiring for the sensor as far back as you can go. Also see if you can find another ECM to try. Should be able to get one for the price you paid for the coil pack
Steve Wood
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
The black and yellow wired sensor is the correct one. You may have a problem in the wiring harness if the new one reads the same. Might be a good idea to meter the wiring and see if it is good...might be in the connector to the sensor or the one to the ecm.
Here is some info on the Thrasher
http://www.thrasher-ep.com/chips_htm/gnttype.shtm
Here is some info on the Thrasher
http://www.thrasher-ep.com/chips_htm/gnttype.shtm
Quote"The orange sticker'd chip sounds like a Red Armstrong chip"
If that's a Red Armstrong chip, I know never to buy another!!! Terrible idle, tip in stumble, and stalling. I went nutts trying to tune it out with IAC reset and TPS adjustments. I thought I was doing something wrong. Turned out to be the chip all along!
The car idles great, no stumble or stalling with the Trasher. Best $25 bucks I've spent! My only concern now is the CTS reading very low.( tops out at about 80 deg)
Does anyone know what voltage should be present, if any, at the yellow or black wire? I need help in diagnosing if one of the wires are dead or a bad ECU. I don't have a spare ECU and don't really want to spend unnecessary ( spelling?) money!
Thanks for the great feedback so far! Vic
If that's a Red Armstrong chip, I know never to buy another!!! Terrible idle, tip in stumble, and stalling. I went nutts trying to tune it out with IAC reset and TPS adjustments. I thought I was doing something wrong. Turned out to be the chip all along!
The car idles great, no stumble or stalling with the Trasher. Best $25 bucks I've spent! My only concern now is the CTS reading very low.( tops out at about 80 deg)
Does anyone know what voltage should be present, if any, at the yellow or black wire? I need help in diagnosing if one of the wires are dead or a bad ECU. I don't have a spare ECU and don't really want to spend unnecessary ( spelling?) money!
Thanks for the great feedback so far! Vic
blackbuick87
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
The only reason I said to use the R/A chip to find the problem is because the Thrasher is open loop at idle. My car idles better with a Thrasher also.
This is a reply from Scott Simpson on another post:
"Nope. Runs mostly like a stocker "Loop-wise" except for the fulll-time Open-Loop mode idle.
You have the option of removing the O2 sensor and running the Thrasher. The chip is designed to identify the sensor as missing and running in full time Open Loop."
Looks like Closed loop at idle.
paul
"Nope. Runs mostly like a stocker "Loop-wise" except for the fulll-time Open-Loop mode idle.
You have the option of removing the O2 sensor and running the Thrasher. The chip is designed to identify the sensor as missing and running in full time Open Loop."
Looks like Closed loop at idle.
paul
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2001
The blink test goes like this. With the engine running, ground the ALDL (A & B). If the engine is in open loop, the check engine light should blink 2.5 times per second and when it goes into closed loop it should blink approximately 1 time per second. It works off the O2 sensor signal, so if the sensor senses lean, the light will stay off more than on and if it senses rich, the light will stay on more than off.
